| The report is
an exceptionally fine document but that is not
surprising, given the membership of the group responsible
for it. It is evident that the people who prepared the
report brought with them a wealth of experience and a
vision for both the film and television industries in
Ireland. I compliment them. It is evident from the report
that there have been significant achievements in recent
times. Historically, Ireland did not have an indigenous
film industry of any significance in terms of overall
output or economic impact. However, everybody is aware of
the achievements which have taken place in recent years
through the leadership of producers and the investment
they have been able to attract. What was particularly
gratifying about recent developments was the impact they
had on the international scene, although I do not wish to
overstate it. We are extremely proud of it. It is evident
from the many reviews and critiques that many of the
films were exceptionally well received.
The report
makes an important point which should be taken on board.
Virtually every national community in the world wants to
have a presence in the film industry, not just for
economic purposes but, as the report makes clear, to be
able to promote their own cultural identity. I was glad
to see that in the report because I made the same point
on a number of occasions in the Seanad. I often wondered
if it was unfashionable to make that statement but it
appears to be well received within the industry. That is
not surprising, even in a purely commercial sense.
If one is
involved in a competitive field and wishes to make
something that will have a unique impact or be a unique
attraction, one will not do the same as one's competitor.
One will endeavour to do something different. One
therefore works on the talents of one's country. These
talents include not just acting and production but also
scriptwriting. If a person is capable of getting to the
heart of something that is indigenous to themselves and
is able to portray it in an artistic way, it is amazing
the universal message it carries. It also gives one a
certain exclusive right to that area. The report is right
to state that. It should be borne in mind by film
producers that it is not necessary to ape what other
countries are doing. We should look at ourselves and, in
a professional manner, depict the strengths we have
within our identity and culture.
I was
disappointed at the RTE bashing which took place over the
Christmas period. I am not saying there should not be an
informed debate about the national broadcasting service
but there appeared to be certain hidden agendas involved
in the type of debate that took place. I hope I am wrong
but it almost seemed orchestrated in the letters columns
of the newspapers, newspaper editorials and in the
comments of certain commentators. Why did that happen
this time and not in any other year? That does not mean
there was no criticism of RTE in other years. Criticism
is healthy and probably helped RTE to develop. In this
case, however, it was so strong and appeared so
orchestrated I was disappointed. It will not help the
broadcasting service in the long run, whether they are
independent or national. Most people who wished to make a
contribution to the development of the broadcasting
service, RTE, would have been critical at times.
Hopefully, we praised when praise was due. That is how it
should be.
It must be said
that RTE has made a major contribution to this country
under many headings. It achieved exceptionally high
standards of presentation in television, whether it was
in current affairs, drama or art programmes, allowing for
the gaps which exist. Major drama series such as
"Strumpet City" and "The Year of the
French" were exceptionally costly but fine
productions and one can name many more such productions
by RTE. However, eaten bread is soon forgotten. We forget
that often RTE was the trailblazer when it came to film
and television production.
RTE should not
rest on its laurels and undoubtedly the company will
encounter major competition. However, the report points
to the need to have RTE actively involved in the
strategies outlined in the report. That is why I pick out
RTE for specific mention. It would be wrong to let pass
or to accept that what was being said was correct.
Look at the
progress Ireland, a small country, has made in theatre,
literature and all types of music. It is evident that we
are capable of making major progress on the international
scene and of making an impact in the international
market, although the film industry has not yet reached
that stage of development. I understand that output was
approximately £123 million but the report states that
this can be increased to £500 million. That is big
money. If it is to succeed, two props will be required.
In the first instance, the report suggests that there
must be a partnership between the industry and the State.
I support that. Second, we must cultivate the nursery
which will provide the talent, whether that is acting,
production, directing and so forth. We must provide that
nursery. We have to look at education as a whole to
ensure that is happening, and that it is not regarded as
a hobby to be introduced only when one has finished one's
formal education. Young minds should be focused on the
career prospects that exist.
An agency like
FÁS has an important role to play in this regard. For
example, FÁS facilitated a young man who had, probably,
an interest in producing little more than home videos
initially. He was given the opportunity of doing a course
with FÁS and was subsequently taken on board in RTE
where he was given work experience and an awareness of
the industry. It took him out of the local equation and
showed him the prospects that were there. FÁS, with Bord
Scannán na hÉireann and other State agencies, could be
more proactive and not just wait for someone to come to
them. Much of what FÁS did in the past is no longer
necessary because much of its work has been accomplished.
FÁS has provided plenty of training and many people have
been able to obtain gainful employment as a result. It
could now move into the film industry and be a partner in
what is happening.
In addition to
providing training and ensuring that young people have
the opportunity at least to test the waters and expand
their knowledge, we have to consider the economic aspect.
Unless we can attract major investors we will always be
living to some extent on our last success without knowing
specifically how we want the industry to develop.
Strategy here is directed towards the provision of
infrastructure, which includes finance. That is covered
within the tax incentive schemes and so on. In addition
we have to instil confidence in the industry. If an
industry is developing well and provides more
opportunities, more people will be attracted to it,
particularly investors. It is likewise in the film
industry. We are not talking about a once-off
achievement. We are talking about the whole industry.
An
interdepartmental government task force would be a start.
We need to assess our assets, our talent and successes,
identify where the potential is and ensure that we have
the infrastructure necessary to exploit that potential in
the best sense and to the fullest. A task force would be
one way of doing that, and that task force would have to
act with a certain urgency. Many task forces we had in
the past were highly successful. Task forces established
at regional level when industries closed down have had
phenomenal success in reversing bad situations and
lifting spirits. In this case there is an extra urgency
because, even though it is an organic type of industry,
tastes are changing, markets are being lost,
opportunities are not perhaps being recognised. The only
way to approach this is to impose a deadline by which the
task force must report and take things from there. The
driving force behind this industry is the artists. If the
commercial side becomes the dominant consideration, there
is a grave danger that art and the input of artists will
suffer. They must be central and at the same time have a
commercial focus.
Having read
through the report, and I have picked out only some
points in it, I was particularly impressed by the manner
in which it was laid out and the strategies put forward.
I was also glad it did not point to the Government or the
State, that it had not a begging bowl approach in the
hope of gaining benefit from the State coffers, and that
there was a realisation that there are many players. I
welcome the report and look forward to hearing the
Minister's comments.
Dr. Henry: I
formally second the motion.
Mr. Manning:
I welcome the Minister to the House.
I have a
suspicion that a funny thing happened to this motion on
its way to the House. When the first draft of this week's
Private Members' Business reached us, we were asked to
compliment the Government on having implemented its
decision to implement this report. Then we got a fairly
frenzied second version of the motion from which the
words "to implement" had disappeared. I suspect
the Leader of the House may have been slightly ahead of
himself in the first wording and that wiser or more
cautious counsel in the Department has restrained his
enthusiasm.
I regret I am
not speaking after the Minister when I would have a clear
indication of the Government's intentions. I was
intrigued by the double flip last week. This is a
non-contentious motion. It was surprising, therefore, to
see civil servants, at the behest of the Government,
beginning a retreat which nobody really thought was
necessary. Perhaps Leader of the House will explain it to
us.
I have a slight
problem with the report. The review group includes
people, many of whom I know personally, all of whom I
believe are people of professionalism and integrity, but
virtually every one of whom has a vested interest in
seeing more money spent on the industry. They would all
gain significantly from greater spending. I am not for
one moment attacking the integrity or good will of
anybody on the group. However, a little more scepticism
on the part of the group might have been helpful in
coming to conclusions. The other side of the equation is
that the people involved are all people who have
firsthand experience, who brought their expertise to bear
and put it at the disposal of the Government and of the
public in getting this report to us.
One thing is
certain and that is that there is an extraordinary market
for film in the modern world. With the arrival of digital
broadcasting and the proliferation of channels the market
is simply insatiable. There is probably no end to what
can be used. Sadly, more has not always meant better. It
has meant spreading the butter more thinly in very many
cases. With seven, eight or nine channels available it is
often very difficult to find something that offers any
sort of challenge to the viewer. There is a tendency to
go down market. We are very fortunate here compared to
many other countries. In the US the lowest common
denominator is infinitely lower than anything which would
find acceptance here. In that sense we still have an
element of public criticism and a resistance on the part
of the public to what is offered to it.
The market
exists and it is good that we have this report on it. It
is a timely, well-written and positive report with
interesting suggestions. I compliment those involved in
its production. Perhaps the most ominous sentence in the
report appeared on page 20 in the executive summary:
Ms Rita
Meehan, Assistant Principal, Department of Finance
wished to record that findings contained in this
report and recommendations made by the Review Group
do not necessarily reflect the view of the Department
of Finance.
Some things
never change. That is perhaps an element of prudence or a
dash of cold water, so I look forward to what the
Minister has to say.
It is in the
nature of the film industry that a great deal of hype
surrounds everything it does. Films are hailed in advance
as great successes, modest productions are easily
described as masterpieces, all films, we are told in
advance, will be great money-spinners with millions to be
made from them and stars will be made overnight. It is in
the nature of the business that gossip and hype surround
the arrival of almost any film, even a modest one.
The reality in
Ireland has been very different. Few films made here have
made large amounts of money, many are lucky to have
broken even, some have incurred significant losses, many
people have burned their fingers through their
association with film productions and a few, not many,
have grown rich from their association with films.
One of the
points made in the report on a number of occasions is the
importance to the country of a healthy film industry and
I do not dispute that. The report makes many assertions
about the value to the country of a strong indigenous
film industry. No one can dispute the power of film as a
major shaper of popular cultural life in Ireland. I
sometimes have difficulty, however, seeing what is in
many ways a commercial venture as part of the national
community effort. I would like to know more than is
available in the report about the relative success of
film industries in other countries. Which countries have
strong film industries and why do they have them? We have
been involved in film production for some time and we
have not done terribly well. Why have we not done better?
What factors have impeded the development of a film
industry in Ireland?
I am also
interested in the emphasis placed on the importance of a
strong indigenous film industry. It is conceded that we
need small, innovative companies but it is stressed we
need three or four big players, as they are called. I do
not know how many of the existing small innovative
companies are capable of growing into big players. Are we
to do what we have done in every other industry and to
attract the established big players to set up in Ireland?
To what extent are we talking about an indigenous film
industry? We do not think of Coca-Cola or Dell computers
as indigenous, so are we talking about a film industry
which is essentially global and which locates in Ireland,
although it could make the same product anywhere else in
the world? I do not mind if it creates good jobs and
allows young people to become involved in a medium which
allows them to travel the world and make use of their
skills. I would like more detail on what is meant by
"indigenous" - is it Irish owned or is it the
location in Ireland of a multinational company?
I am interested
in many aspects of the report, such as the emphasis on
training for script writing It is important to devote
resources to such training. Perhaps too much is being
asked of RTE and it is being asked to play too great a
part in film production. Perhaps these are points the
Minister can address.
Dr. Henry:
I welcome the report because film has been one of our
more successful new industries. I was glad that Senator
Ó Murchú emphasised not only the commercial side but
also the cultural level to which we hope people aspire. A
splendid job was done by the people who compiled the
report and they certainly had a vested interest in it. I
would have liked a little more in the report on the
inclusion of children and the younger age group within
the cultural climate we hope to set with television.
Senator Manning
was correct to say we are fortunate in the level of film
and television production to which we have access. We
fish out of the UK pool and our own television stations.
Some of us also have the good fortune to receive some
continental stations. In that regard, I always remember
when one of my children was small and we were in America
saying that 40 channels were available and nothing was on
any of them. I am inclined to believe that when we get
digital television we will still rely on our own five,
six or seven channels.
I am fascinated
by the impact TG4 is trying to make. I am not a good
Irish scholar, as Senator Ó Murchú knows, but I
strongly recommend some of the programmes it broadcasts,
such as the lives of the American Presidents, for
example. If that were shown in the United States it would
make riveting watching. I would love to know what
marketing efforts are being made to have some of these
extraordinary documentary films broadcast further afield.
There are many
recommendations in the report and I was a little dismayed
to see that the recent budget did not undertake to
support some of the financial recommendations which I
thought were very good. I would have thought the whole
package needed to be taken on board. Recommendation 14
concerns tax incentives. With Senator Manning, I noted Ms
Rita Meehan's warning at the end of the recommendations
that they were not necessarily the views of the
Department of Finance. Was the report read before the
budget because many of the recommendations regarding tax
incentives were not taken on board?
In the budget
the Government extended the film tax incentive, known as
section 481, for five years at 80% tax relief. However,
the report recommended that the scheme be continued for
another seven years and, more importantly, that tax
relief for films with a budget of less than £4 million
should be 100%. In making films, it takes a certain
amount of time to raise finance, to prepare the script,
to assemble the cast and to get the show on the road. A
period of three or four years is very short in planning
such a project. The Minister for Finance should have
extended the scheme for seven years. Most films made here
have a budget of under £4 million, so why did he not
give 100% relief? It would have been well worth doing and
I support the recommendation in that regard. The trade
unions, employers and semi-State agencies were all in
favour of this approach, therefore, why did the Minister
not do it?
The report
recognised the importance of the Irish Film Board as the
main agency to support and develop film. The Minister
agreed that its income should rise to £3.5 million by
2004, in other words, five years from when the report was
published. However, in recommendation 19 the report
indicates how important the restructured and strengthened
Film Board should be and that £9.5 million should be
given over two years. Given that we are apparently flush
with money at the moment, would it not be better to
provide the money immediately and get things going? I
cannot see the reason for the delay. Projects are often
postponed because of a lack of certainty about funding.
The current funding difficulties of the Irish Film Board
should be examined and funding brought forward more
quickly.
There is
another matter on which the Minister for Finance has been
a little tardy. Recommendation No. 20 is that a capital
injection of £5 million should be used to give "a
powerful boost to independent film production in
Ireland" and that funding of £5 million over the
next three years should be given. However, the funding
from the Minister is to be staggered even further. There
needs to be a sense of urgency in the provision of money
to reassure those who are involved in making films, a
great number of whom come from abroad, that we are
committed to an ongoing strategy. Even the delay in
clarifying what was going to happen with regard to
section 481 put back the making of quite a few films.
The Film
Institute of Ireland is not mentioned in the report and I
am sorry about that. It is most important that we promote
this body which preserves the film culture of the
country. The film archive is very important because with
it we safeguard our audiovisual heritage. We should be
able to collect the film, tape, paper and memorabilia
that we need to have a truly national archive. The film
archive should be developed. We should collect
audio-visual material from both parts of the island
because it is of great historical value.
We need to
understand that film and media education is important.
The audience is important also. It is marvellous to make
films and television programmes but not much good if one
does not put bums on seats, so to speak. I urge that
greater effort be put into educational publications for
school children. The Film Institute of Ireland was
visited by 13,000 school children last year and the
institute ran screenings and organised workshops for
them. It is important that people acquire a feeling for
what good film is when they are young. We should put
money into producing good films for children and young
people so they understand what constitutes high
production values.
I regret that
much bought-in material is disgraceful. It is poor in
script and artistically and is not of the standard we
would like to see. The junior and leaving certificate
syllabuses include film and we need to have people with
educational expertise on the various advisory bodies so
that we can raise the standard of film for young people.
I support what Senator Manning has said about the dumbing
down of programmes. I am not impressed by weekend
television. During the week our television is of a high
standard but at the weekend one sometimes wonders what
one could watch.
Many projects
come here because of good environmental conditions. We
must be careful when we erect structures such as power
lines that we do not destroy vistas that have been
popular in the past and which may be important in future
projects. Our environment has made Ireland popular as a
location for big epic films and older films such as those
alluded to by Senator Ó Murchú. It would be a great
pity if we hampered our film industry through
carelessness in our management of the environment. Our
film industry is a by-product of the television and film
age from which we have reaped important financial
benefits.
Minister of
State at the Department of Arts, Heritage, Gaeltacht and
the Islands (Éamon Ó Cuív): Glacaim buíochas
leat, a Chathaoirligh, as ucht an deis seo a bheith agam
cupla focal a rá agus gabhaim leithscéal thar cheann an
Aire. Tá sí tinn i láthair na huaire agus níl sí in
ann a bheith linn tráthnóna. Caithfidh mise, mar Aire
Stáit, déanamh ina háit.
On foot of a
commitment of the Government in An Action Programme for
the Millennium the Minister for Arts, Heritage, Gaeltacht
and the Islands, Deputy de Valera, established in 1998
the film industry strategic review group, familiarly
known as the film think tank, under the chairmanship of
Mr. Ossie Kilkenny. The Minister mandated the group in
its terms of reference to carry out an objective
evaluation of the effectiveness of the existing schemes
and incentives to develop the industry, analyse and
identify the fundamental issues facing the industry, make
recommendations in relation to future measures in support
of the film industry and formulate a strategic plan for
the future of the industry into the new decade.
The group
proceeded to carry out an in-depth examination of the
strategic and practical issues facing the industry. They
met a wide range of interest groups and experts in the
creative, industrial and technical spheres and also had a
two-day engagement with a panel of international film
industry experts who were invited to Dublin for the
purpose. There was, during the lifetime of the group, an
extraordinary commitment of time and talent by the
members, a group of top professionals. This was a measure
of their deep commitment to and faith in the future of
the industry. Their report reflects this commitment and
belief. Following a decade of unprecedented growth,
activity and creativity in film and television production
in Ireland, it was appropriate that we should engage in
this in-depth review.
The report,
which is the product of a year of intense work is solid
and practical, yet also inspirational. It gives a clear
and solid basis for policy for this vital cultural
industry through the first decade of this new century, a
blueprint for a strategic approach to the future
development of the industry. The interrelationships
between the broadcasting, telecommunications and
information technology sectors are deepening and
expanding. This convergence is clearly a key area of
potential where economic advantage may be obtained and
the exploitation of this advantage will be a central,
essential plank of our industrial development in the next
decade.
It is a matter
of strategic importance that Ireland continues to develop
and expand its cultural influence through the audiovisual
media in parallel with and as an integral part of our
economic growth. This influence creates goodwill towards
Ireland as well as providing business opportunities and
specialist employment in a key growth sector in the
modern world economy. Given the focus of Irish industrial
policy on "high end" industries and our
established strengths in the information technology and
telecommunications industries, Ireland is well placed to
take advantage of new and emerging markets for creative
audiovisual content.
This industry
is a particularly attractive one. It is environmentally
friendly and makes a vital contribution to maintaining a
dynamic cultural life in this country. In a broader
perspective, a vigorous Irish presence in this sector
will have a wider importance as the coming decade
proceeds, with telemarketing and advertising being driven
by quality audiovisual entertainment.
The think tank
has made a number of key recommendations for the future
development of the industry and the Minister has obtained
Government approval to proceed with the implementation,
as a first phase, of those recommendations which must
form the foundation stone upon which the rest depend. The
Minister has secured in the budget the extension of
section 481 investment incentives for five years, up to
April 2005, to give an unprecedented platform of
stability for the industry.
The Irish Film
Board will be assigned a substantially expanded role.
This will require its restructuring and strengthening and
involve additional staff and funding. The report
recommends that the following crucial functions will fall
to be carried out by the board following its
restructuring and expansion: the provision of expertise
in the development of high quality script which is
artistically and commercially strong; new project
development and production funding to build increasing
commercial viability; strategic business development,
including the development of new forms of film company
financing; co-ordination of generic marketing programmes
for Irish film and television content; international
marketing of Ireland's film-making capacity; in-career
training and development, interfacing with the industry
and Screen Training Ireland; providing production
expertise and advice; technological foresight and advice
to the industry; co-ordination with the television
broadcasting sector; co-ordination with other industrial
agencies of the State, and development of a plan for
Irish language production.
To enable the
board to take on these wide-ranging additional and
expanded functions for the industry the Minister is
engaging independent consultants to examine and advise on
its staff and organisational structure needs to meet this
increased workload. The Minister has ensured that its
base allocation for 2000 will be increased by 30% over
its original 1999 capital allocation to £5.3 million.
The Minister was also able to allocate a supplemental
provision of £700,000 to the board in 1999 to enable it
reduce the overhang of capital commitments carried over
from 1999 to 2000 so that more resources could be
committed to new projects in 2000.
The Minister
has appointed Mr. Ossie Kilkenny as chairman of the board
to oversee implementation of these crucial changes.
Having ably chaired the think tank he brings to the
position an indepth knowledge of the entertainment
industry.
The think tank
recommends the establishment of two funds - a long-term
equity fund for film company development and a once-off
fund for new project development for television - as a
means of addressing under-capitalisation of the
indigenous sector. The Minister will be asking the
restructured board in conjuntion with other relevant
State agencies to examine these proposals in light of the
need to build the capital base of our film companies and
to submit detailed proposals to her on how this need
might be addressed.
It is accepted
by Government that the audiovisual industry has a central
place in industrial policy. It is intended that there
will be a co-ordinated commitment by the industrial
agencies of the State, including FÁS, with the Irish
Film Board, to the development of the industry's full
potential and, in particular, to fostering strong
indigenous companies in this sector.
The report will
provide the basis for policy in the new decade. The
Minister has indicated, however, that in one aspect she
will be departing from its proposals. She does not
consider that imposing a levy on cinema seats and video
sales or rentals is an appropriate way to fund the Irish
Film Board. While the efforts of the think tank to
identify potential sources of additional funding for the
board are appreciated, such a levy would require the
establishment of a bureaucracy for its implementation,
the cost of which would be passed on to consumers, hinder
the growth of audiences and, in particular, impact on the
viability of smaller cinemas. In an environment where
Government policy is to reduce the taxation burden
generally, the Minister considers that it would be
inappropriate to impose a new tax on a medium of mass
entertainment.
The report
makes recommendations on the need to target education in
film to the practical needs of the industry so that
education in film at all levels is focused and
co-ordinated with the needs of and career opportunities
in the industy. The Minister will liaise with her
colleague, the Minister for Education and Science, on
this matter which falls within his area of
responsibility. On in-career training, the operations of
Screen Training Ireland will be responsive to the needs
of the industry.
The think tank
makes the point forcefully that while Ireland has a
strong literary tradition, there appears to be a
difficulty in adapting literary story telling skills to
the screen. This leads to one of its most fundamental
conclusions, that is, that investment in script and
project development has been totally inadequate. Since
taking office the Minister has seen this as a crucial
area requiring focused attention. The Irish Film Board
now has a full-time development officer and the
proportion of its capital committed to development
support has substantially increased. As additional
resources are allocated to the board there will be a
major expansion of its role in development. The positive
results of this refocusing will be evident in coming
years.
The report
rightly emphasises the importance of the European
dimension of the industry. The Minister and the
Department will be actively involved in the negotiation
in coming months of the new MEDIA programme - MEDIA PLUS
- which will commence in 2001. The recommendations of the
think tank report will inform our input to these
negotiations.
We are
embarking on a new phase in the building of a world
class, commercially successful and competitive industry.
We can look forward to the further strengthening of the
strong links which have been developed between the
agencies North and South. Such co-operation benefits
everyone. All elements of the industry need to work
together. Producers have a responsibility actively to
support, foster and promote indigenous talent in crew and
cast. Those involved in the industry need to operate in a
modern, transparent way, eliminating practices which
damage the opportunities and prospects for everyone. The
State can only be the facilitator in creating a positive
climate and an appropriate framework of incentives. It is
for those working in the industry to grasp these
opportunities with conviction and determination to
succeed. We are confident that they will do so.
As Minister of
State with responsibility for the Gaeltacht I very much
welcome the Minister's initiative on foot of the report's
recommendation in asking Bord Scannán na hÉireann, in
conjunction with the television broadcasters, Údaras na
Gaeltachta and Enterprise Ireland, to develop proposals
for a focused policy framework for developing
commercially viable television production in the Irish
language. Ba mhaith liom buíochas a ghlacadh leis an
Seanadóir Henry as an méid a dúirt sí faoi TG4
aréir. I thank her for her kind words.
Dr. Henry:
I can understand that much.
Éamon Ó
Cuív: We must preserve quality television
programming to which TG4 within its direct remit and its
wider activities since its foundation has certainly
added. I hope there will never be a move to television
aimed at the lowest common denominator. As the report
indicates there are very large audiences in Europe,
including those in major language areas, accustomed to
dubbed television programmes and films. As the number of
television outlets increases the market potential, for
example, of a long running television drama serial
originally produced in a minority language will increase.
I look forward to Bord Scannán na hÉireann's proposals.
Tá béim
curtha ar thábhacht na Gaeilge sa rud seo ar fad agus
tá an teanga luaite mar bhun-rud sa tuarascáil. Mar
Aire Stáit a bhfuil freagracht na Gaeilge orm cuirim
féin an-fháilte roimhe sin.
The Minister
wishes to express her appreciation of the work of the
members of the think tank and all those who facilitated
and contributed to its deliberative process, including
those who took the time to make written and oral
presentations. Ba mhaith liom buíochas a ghlacadh leis
na Seanadóirí a labhair go dtí seo. Eisteofar go
cúramach ní hamháin leis an méid atá le rá acu sin
ach chomh maith leis an méid atá le rá ag duine ar
bith eile a ghlacfaidh páirt sa díospóireacht seo.
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