Minutes of evidence taken before the Select Committee on Steam Navigation.

15 September, 1831.

Captain Kennett Beauchamp Martin, called in; and examined.

   88. What are you? - I am in the command of the City of London steam packet, and deputy harbour master at Ramsgate, during the winter months.

   89. Will you have the goodness to state to the Committee, when an order is given to stop an engine, how long it will go before it stops?  - The effect with my vessel is almost instantaneous; and I should say in 30 seconds the vessel’s machinery is going astern; retrograding.

   90. What is the distant she goes previous to been stopped? - Not one alpha; because the fans of the wheels oppose so great a resistance to the fluid, that she cannot proceed much further.

   91. What is the size of your vessel? - 129 feet in length, and 50 feet wide.

   92. What is her tonnage? - 230 tons; I cannot speak to her precise tonnage.

   93. What water does she draw? – Six feet.

   94. What power has she? - 100 horse, each wheel is equal to 50 horse.

   95. What is her average power of going through the water? - I should say barely 10 knots: I should say an average of 9 ˝.  I have found her going 9˝ by the log.

   96. When she is going at that average, when you gave your order to stop her, from the moment of the order to the time she stops, would it be only half a minute? - I am sure it would not be more; the fans are four feet wider than the beams of the vessels; the Committee would be surprised if they were to see the effect, the heavier the weight of the vessel, the quicker her way is stopped, because the body of the vessel also opposes the fluid. One of the government vessels which draws a great deal of water opposes an immense body to the fluid also.

   97. But she has got her way? - That might counterbalance the effect.

   98. The fact is, that you find that as far as recollection serves you, your vessel has stopped certainly within the minute? - Certainly.

   99. Your opinion is that it is half a minute? - I am certain that it is.

   100. If the Committee understand you correctly, after the order has been given, you could stop her well before she has got half the vessel? - The effect on me, on deck, appears to be instantaneous; the fact is, that the man stands between the engines, and places his hand on the valve as quick as the trigger of a gun.

   101. Suppose you saw a boat ahead of you, and you had not seen it till it was the vessel’s length from you, you could stop it without running over the boat? - I should not like to try the experiment; I have seen a vessel ahead of me in that way, because one of the greatest troubles we are put to is, a waterman popping out of a tier of vessels ahead, and knowing we have a power of stopping, they trifle with us.

   102. The engineer who was last examined, stated that he could not stop the machinery till three revolutions after the command has been given? - Those three revolutions take place in three seconds.

   103. You agree with him in that opinion? - I should think he is correct in that respect, because the imputus which the vessel has through the water, must have some effect upon the fans to check the engine in stopping.

   104. Was the engineer, when he mentioned that three revolutions were necessary, speaking at that period of reversing the engines, do you think? - No.

   105. Do the committee understand you to say, that in reversing the engine, any number of revolutions would necessarily take place? - I should say not, because the engineer, when he stops an engine, in all vessels which have two engines, which all vessels ought to have, when he has once stopped them, has to cast his eye to see which of them is retrograding, and he lets on the steam on that, and vessel goes astern.

   106. So that no revolution is necessary? - None whatever.

   107. At what rate does the tide carry a vessel in the Thames, giving an average ? - The tide depends a great deal upon the land waters at this season of the year; I have seen the tide running down the Pool at five knots; I have eased the vessel half speed, and she has been a great while getting up, because the ebb tide was running so strong.

   108. Did she still go on ahead? - Yes, she still went on ahead.

   109. You say you eased your vessel to half speed, how do you do that? - The moment we leave the wharf to go down the Pool, it has always been my invariable practice to desire the engineer to go at half speed, the effect would be different in different vessels or engines; the average number of revolutions is about 30 per minute, but the vessel must be in very excellent order; she seldom goes more than 28, that is about the average. When the engineer is desired to go at half speed through the Pool, he shuts off a portion of the steam pressure from the cylinders, and of course my sole dependence is upon him, but I can tell from accustoming myself to the stroke of the wheel, it catches my ear from continual practice.

   110. But he would have the power of counting it; when you reduce it to half speed, do you reduce it to half the number of strokes? - Yes.

   111. In point of fact, is he charged to do that, and does he do it. When he goes at half speed, does he trust to his ear, or does he take a watch and observe whether he has reduced it half or not ? - He takes no watch, and I think he does not exceed that by a minute, he is more likely to go under than over.

   112. But a man of practice may know whether he is going at half? – Without a watch.

   113. When the steam is reduced to half the number strokes in that way, does is exactly make that effect upon the vessel's going; does she go half the number of knots? - Much nearer than a sailor would suppose, it comes very near it, and Mr. Brunel cast it out for me by mathematical calculations, and he said that it would have that affect.

   114. What is the lowest rate of going at which she would steer? - I could not trust her in the Pool if she was not going four knots.

   115. Then it is necessary for you to go through the Pool at four knots? - It is necessary to go at a great deal more than that, which I will explain. When there are conservatories of the Thames, which gave to sailing packets and sailing vessels the privilege of tacking to and fro, and sailing up the Pool, they are not attended to; and as a commander of a sailing packet for 11 years, I know that I did more damage unavoidably, than I have done by steam boat.

   116. Does your answer with respect to going four knots an hour, apply to your going with the tide, or against the tide? - Equally; I must have the vessel under my command, whether she is going with or against the tide.

   117. When you state that you have had five knots of tide running against you, how many knots have you been then going? - We have been going about seven.

   118. How long has that taken you? - I have been about half an hour from the Hong Point at the entrance of the Pool, immediately opposite to Limehouse, up to St. Catherine’s.

   119. What you called the distance? - I should think that distance to be two miles and a half.

   120. Supposing the tide were running at the rate of five knots an hour, at its greatest rate, what is the smallest distance at which you could travel in an hour, keeping the vessel under proper steerage? -  When we are going down with the tide, we are exposed to even more danger then when we are against it, because we may be driven over tier.

   121. What is the smallest distant you could perform, if the tide was running with you? - Eleven miles over the ground; I should require to go six miles an hour through the water.

   122. You have stated that with a steerage of four miles you could go? - Not to be safe in a pool of 120 feet wide, which I am sure was the extreme width of it when I travelled it.

   123. You would require to go six knots through the water to provide for the safety of your vessel? - Yes.

   124. You have very often gone up the river with a vessel at less speed than six knots? - Certainly.

   125. Without any risk of any danger? - Yes.

   126. Then why should you say that you ought to have six knots? - The steamboat occupied much more space; that is, without paddles.

   127. If it is in action, that does not prevent your steering? - We have not the room that a sailing packet has.

   128. Your bow is very much wider in your steamboat than the bow of a merchantman? - It is about the same.

   129. Then that is the part that you would strike the boat with? - That is the greatest danger with the paddle box, and all the steam vessel vessels have what they call the shealing-board at an angle with the bow.

   130. Would the steamboat answer her helm when she was going four knots an hour? - She would, but the length of them is very immense.

   131. What harm can you do to any vessel going four knots? -. I think I can explain it. I think it was about a month back, when I was in the river, it blew a gale of wind at N.N.W.; there was a great many craft ahead of me, what we technically call dung craft, coal barges and others; I was obliged to ease the speed of my vessel; there were four Berwick smacks, which had left the wharf above me, those were going two knots to my one, if I had not been at liberty to escape by increasing my speed, they would have run me down.

   132. Why would they run you down, might not they stop? - They will not stop.

   133. Could they under the circumstances? - No, they could not.

   134. If they had taken in all their sail they could have stopped? Yes, if they had taken in all their sail.

   135. Four knots an hour you stated was the least speed at which you could steer the vessel? - I said, to ensure the safety of my vessel it must be six.

   136. Would you explain to the Committee what you mean by saying that a vessel would be under proper steerage at the rate of four knots an hour, but that for the safety of the vessel itself she must go at six? - When sailing vessels are cutting the Pool diagonally from side to side, it is necessary sometimes when a sailing vessel has stood over to one side of the Pool, and has just come about, to put on speed and go ahead of her.

   137. Is a vessel under proper command going at rate of four knots an hour? -Not under every circumstance. 

   138. Supposing and steamboat was confined to her steerage with a rate, say four knots an hour, what would be the probable evils which would accrue from such a measure? - The sailing barges and vessel of that description would run up with us, going faster through the water.

   139. Is that your only reason? - Yes.

   140. Suppose you were going four knots through the water, and you were allowed to go no quicker than that in rounding a point or ridge the tide would have an effect upon you, do you think you could steer clear of a tier or vessel? - I know the impossibility of it from experience; our vessels are of such a length, some of them are 150 feet long, so that when the bow of a vessel comes into one tide the stern sometimes remains in another; the eddy is acting as a lever upon the stern, and the tide upon the bow, which, if we were not to keep on at a certain speed, I am sure, in spite of all our efforts, the vessel would be driven to the other side of the river; the action of one wheel comes into one tide before the other.

   141. Is not the difficulty increased from the increased velocity of the tide itself? - Yes.

   142. Then although you would trust her with for knots in still water, you cannot trust her with four knots in a heavy tide? -. In the Pool I cannot.

   143. You understand the machinery of the vessel generally? - I do.

   144. There are three valves to the vessel; there are two throttle valves and a safety valve? - There is in my vessel one safety valve to the boiler; the only reason why two have been adopted is, that they have sometimes adhered from some principle that it is difficult to understand, and there is an aperture in the roof of the boiler to prevent any accident of that kind; our valve is contrived with a trigger under it, which has no connexion with it, to keep it down; it is not at all to join it, but it is in the event of any suspicion of that kind to force it up.

   145. Whereabouts is your safety valve placed? - It is immediately over the centre of the boiler.

   146. You could not get to that valve in an instant? - It would take an hour and a half to get to it.

   147. Then you have no effect on it? - Nobody has any.

   148. Is not the valve always upon the move? - Yes; but upon the event of any suspicion arising that there is anything the matter with that valve, he has the power to lift it at once from the boiler.

   149. Is it not at the bottom of the waste pipe? - No.

   150. Are all vessels that way? - I believe the whole of them in the company I serve has that.

   151. Suppose that valve were thrown open, how soon would it stop it? - It would not have any effect upon it for many minutes.

   152. For 20 minutes? - The steam would be so exhausted in ten minutes, that it would stop; that valve would be only a secondary cause to apply to go, when you had the other in your power.

   153. You have two throttle valves, one to each cylinder; when these are open, that throws the steam over the piston? It throws as large a column about as below it.

   154. And that is the only way you have of stopping? - The only way.

   155. Is not the impetus of the wheels going round very great, supposing you have reduced the weight of one of them so much, would they stop in an instant? - They must have three revolutions; I have seen them stop in an instant without one revolution; supposing in coming down the Pool that a bolt from one of the fans is driven out at the wharf by a pile, or something, when we lift up the cover of the paddle box under which the wheel traverses, if I stand there I can tell the engineer to stop it in an instant at that precise point.

   156. You say that you have made experiments with the vessel you command now? - Yes.

   157. Could not a captain tell the rate of his vessel's going by the number of strokes of the piston? - There is no difficulty at all; but the committee must allow me to make this observation, that the vessels that I have been in the habit of commanding have generally been in nearly the same trim; if you were to put 50 per 60 tons on my vessel I could not, but in the general trim of her I could tell to half a knot.

   158. What is the average time you take from Greenwich to St. Catherine's, both against and with the tide? - Our average time with the tide is from 30 to 35 minutes, and against the tide about, I should say, not more than 40 minutes; because we go faster against the tide; about three-quarters of an hour; but the tides are so different, sometimes they do not run half the velocity; against a common ebb tide about three-quarters of lower.

   159. Do you keep anything like a log book on board? - Yes.

   160. Regularly? - Yes; we have not so much to put down as a ship on a voyage has; we merely state the time we started from the dock and the passengers we take, and the quantity of cold we consume.

   161. Do you find any inconvenience when you approach the Pool by the number of boats that come off for passengers? - I do consider more danger in stopping in the Pool for a passenger then in anything else.

   162. It is at present the practice? - Yes.

   163. And where you should not have passengers, still the boats crowd round you looking for fares, whether you have or not? - They do, from that circumstance.

   164. And very considerable danger rises from those boats crowded round you? - More than from any other circumstance.

   165. If you found that your vessel could be steered with as much ease by a man looking over the bow from the forecastle, would not that be a great security against accidents from small boats? - I do not think it would.

   166. Have you met ever known any mistake made by your helmsman in the word of command? - No, because I always accompany my command with an action.

   167. Is that done by all commanders of steam boats? - I do not know; I have taught my helmsman to consider that if I hold my hand up he is to steady the helm.

   168. If the man were to stand upon the forecastle he would see the danger in itself? - Yes, and I should think the waterman would take advantage of that in order to trifle with us; even children have what was called a toss, in the undulation of the waters occasioned by our wheel.

   169. You are not always upon the deck yourself, you may be sometimes down stairs? - Not in the Pool.

   170. You spoken of the number of tons in your vessel; what is the average number of passenger per ton which you carry; what number would you say might be on board, to be safe, and not to be crowded? - It depends upon the vessels. Some of the vessel's have sponsoons which go out half the width of the wheels, and some even to the extremity of it, as is the case with The United Kingdom. This gives them an immense capacity of deck, but we must not infer from that that it is capable of carrying all that increased weight; I do not think you ought to carry more open to passengers to a ton.

   171. What number of boats have you on board? - Only one.

   172. How many will that boat contain? - It would contain half dozen to 10 people, but their safety would depend upon whether they were in smooth water or not.

   173. With the great care that you take with your vessel, will you have the goodness to state to the committee how many accidents have occurred to you? - During the eleven years I have had but three which could properly be called accidents; the first was one that I saw very much exaggerated the other day in the Morning Chronicle. A Mr. Lucy has stated there that he was in a boat with two servants and three children, and I run over him. We were coming up to the Pool, and he had entrusted his servant maid, with three children, to a man who was so deaf that he was nicknamed deaf Lolley. Mr. Lucy was not in the boat; they pulled out from under a sailing craft; the vessel in lieu of going through the water was stopped at the time, or they would every one have been sacrificed, for the waterman rowed right into the wheel, and he sprung out and left the woman and the three children to their fate; it happened to be on that side of the vessel on which I was, on the paddle box; Captain Dance Dundas, now of the Regent, was standing close to me; the third child was missing; I heard it, pulled up the cover of the paddle wheel and descended through the wheel, and finding, after having gone down through a wheel like that of 14 feet diameter, that it was impossible for me to ascend, I I took the child in my arms and came out into the Thames, by that means they were all saved. The steamboat was not going at the time, or they must have been sacrificed.

   174. What upset the boat if there was no movement in the packet? – The vessel was coming up with the tide, the wherryman pulled out in spite of the tide; her own way must have upset her, she came right into the door part of the wheel.

   175. The vessel was lying perfectly quite? – Perfectly; we were going to check her round, she had some little way with the tide, but a very trifling, and therefore it was the wherry pulling against us that upset her.

   176. Will you informed the Committee of the next accident which happened by your vessel? - The next occurred this year, and it was stated that we had run over a vessel with a valuable cargo of East India goods; coming into the wharf at Saint Catherine's, the vessel had been checked round head upon tide and was close to the entrance of the wharf, and was dropping up stern foremost into her berth; those men in the skiff, I have no doubt, in spite of the remonstrances of the mate and the passengers, rowed into the after part of the wheel. Then came a statement in the newspaper that I have run over them.

   177. What happened upon that occasion? - Nothing of consequence; there was a gun-case which was shoved into the water, and the man immediately picked it up.

   178. And you were then dropping in? - Yes.

   179. Was your engine moving? No, it was still.

   180. Was the same deaf man in the skiff at that time? -I do not know.

   181. Was did not Lucy and his son on board that? - No, the boat belonged to Mr. Thomas Lucy, the other was a John Lucy. For the truth of what I have stated I can appeal to Sir John Hall, at Saint Catherine's.

   182. Will you state the third accident which happened? - The third was a barge belonging to Messrs.  Oxley & Taylors, of Northfleet. The Committee must allow me to inform them, that this has been decided again the parties at the Police House, at Shadwell. According to the bye-laws and regulations of the river, those barges and vessel and not allowed to sail in the Pool: it was blowing a gale of wind the right down when we left the wharf, and to avoid a coal barge, which was ahead of us, we had eased our speed, and stopped the vessel ultimately altogether. This barge, under canvas, was on the opposite side to the one we were avoiding, the captain hove about, filled his sails, and setting immediately for our wheel, where he knew he could receive no injury himself, made use of an expression which I cannot mentioned here, " I will make your wheel clatter.” The waterman on that side of the vessel said he would strike our wheel. “Turn her astern," I said, and she was immediately turned astern, but the vessel missing our wheel, came into our vessel and stoved the vessel right into the interior, and broke both the outside and the inner ceiling of the wheel. This man, or someone on the barge with the waterman, swore at the vessel, and said, “There, I have made a port-hole for you." I had 364 passengers on board at that time; I was obliged to get all the passengers on one side, and to make a temporary repair, and then proceeded on my voyage to Ramsgate.

   183. Those are the only three incidents you have had for eleven years, on your steam vessel? - Yes.

   184. And in point of fact, you have had no accident when your vessel has been under weigh? - I have never I had one.

   185. Did you never know any vessel to be capsized by the undulation of the water made by your wheels? - I never did, if I was put to my oath.

   186. Did you ever see anyone swamped or filled with water? - I never did; I have heard of wherries loaded with mackerel, in the mackerel season, and herrings in the herring season, been swamped, but they came down to the waters edge.

   187. Do you carry carriages? - Never; we are capable of carrying them, but it is considered an inconvenience to passengers.

   188. Did you ever see deeply laden vessels receive damage from the undulation of the water? - Many times they put into a barge, which is capable of carrying only 80 times, 100.

   189. Do you know the paddles which are used with a feather? - Yes.

   190. If they were used, would they create so much undulation of the water? -  Certainly not.

   191. Did you ever see them used? - Once only.

   192. Do you know whether there are approved of? - They are very liable to get out of order, the best I believe of the kind are Lieutenant Morgan’s.

   193. Do you ever carry horses on board your vessel? - Never.

   194. Have you ever seen any vessel that does? - Yes.

   195. You consider two persons per ton a proper load to your packet? - Yes.

   196. Provided you commanded a vessel that carried cattle, would not you make a great difference in carrying passengers; you would not carry the same number? - Certainly not.

   197. What difference would you in your judgement consider should be made? - I think that a vessel capable of carrying 200 passengers ought not to carry more than 60 horses.

   198. You have stated that you allowed to passengers per ton, that is supposing you carry no cattle; if you carried cattle or horses, how would you make your calculation? - I think you ought not to carry more than 1 horse to two tons.

   199. A horse to four men? - Yes.

   200. On what principle do you calculate two persons per ton time as the limit? - By my own practice in carrying passengers.

   201. Is it to be understood the weight of more than two persons to a ton renders the vessel unmanageable? - It is not on that principle, but that danger would rise from the deck being crowded too much with passengers.

   202. Is that merely from the inconvenience of being unable to work the vessel? Yes.

   203. Do you are collected the number of passengers per ton, which were allowed in vessels carrying emigrants to America? - I do not; I was employed previous two the battle of Waterloo in carrying over the troops.

   204. At what rate per ton were they taken over? - As many as we could stow, and the horses also.

   205. Two passengers per ton being the number allowed for vessels under the circumstances you have mentioned, would not a greater proportion of passengers be permissible to a steam vessel under any circumstances? - It depends entirely on the voyage which she has to perform.

   206. Suppose you had two persons to the ton, as you have described, where would you stow away from 400 to 500 people in bad weather? - You should not take so many in bad weather.

   207. Does your observations apply generally, that you should not take steam vessels to sea? No, not at all; I should carry with perfect ease in my vessel 500 people to Greenwich; I should not like to take more than 300 to Gravesend, and 150 if I had to go much further.

   208. With respect to the tonnage at which vessels are measured, may not a vessel measured by one person have a really different tonnage from another which is said to be the same? - I do not think so from the manner in which they are measured by our register measurement; because their breadth and length are taken without much regard to the depth of the hold.

   209.  You are out in your vessel at night? - Yes.

   210. What is your custom about lights? - My custom would be to place a very good lantern at the foremast head; it must have a back to it, or it would intercept the sight; and one under each paddle box.

   211. Is that always done? - I always do it, and then any vessel ahead of us sees that we are coming.

   212. Do you know that other vessels do it? - I saw yesterday evening five vessels in the river, and every vessel had a lantern at the mast head.

   213. Is that a particular plan of your own, or is it an order from your owners? - They order me to fix lights, but I exercise my own discretion as to the manner of fixing them.

   214. Have you ever seen Higgins’s revolving lights? - Yes, I have seen them tried.

   215. Do you approve of them? -  Yes, I think they are clever things.

   216. Is there no way of creating a light with coal gas? - Our vessels that go to Hamburg have it in preference to any other light.

   217. What number of men have you on board your vessel? - Eight of the crew, four engineers, at least the first and second engineer, and two firemen; and eight of the crew, besides myself.

   218. Do two firemen keep your fire in order? - There are three of them; the second engineer assists in feeding the furnaces; but there is a great deal of difference in vessels; my vessel is attended better by two men than some would be by three.

   219. Did you ever make any experiment to see in what degree the opening of the doors would stop the vessel? - I did try, but I did not find any effect. But we will suppose that two or three boats are coming off at Greenwich; when I ascertain that I shall be detained, I immediately call to the engineer to open the furnace doors, because as the steam will necessarily be shut off for a considerable time from the cylinders, we do not want to create steam faster than we can use it, therefore by opening all the doors we lessen the draught.

   220. If you were to open all your furnace doors, could you generate steam enough to run three knots? - No, I could not.

   221. In what proportion would it reduced your steam? - The draught would not be so sharp; but they could generate steam.

   222. You mean by constantly feeding the furnace? -Yes.

   223. It only creates a draught by shutting? - Yes.

   224. Does not the door increased the draught, and thereby the heat of the furnace? - Yes.

   225. Then, of course, it must generate steam faster? -Yes.

   226. In regulating the quantity of steam by the furnace doors, it must depend upon the quantity of fuel you apply? - It is necessary to shut those doors to ignite the coal the quicker.

   227. Suppose you were to fill your grate with coals, and suppose you were to keep the furnace doors open, would you still be able to create steam enough to go on? - I think so, when they have been once well alight.

   228. You would the much longer in getting the steam up? Yes; I find after having stopped about 15 minutes, and taken in passengers and baggages, the moment the engineers are ordered to go on again there is no want of steam.

   229. You do not get your full speed? We are at full speed in one minute, there are an immense quantity of coals ignited in our furnaces.

   230. You stated that you received a violent blow from a barge; if that had made you sink, what means had you of relieving the vessel? - I should put all my passengers off.

   231. If that had happened in open sea, what should you have done? - We can discharge immense quantities of water by our pumps. I once met with an accident from a ship's anchor, which pricked a hole completely through the body of the vessel, and became from Folkstone to Ramsgate Water as fast as we could, and we supplied the boiler with water from the crack till we came up to Ramsgate.

   232. To the extent of feeding your boiler was you could use the engine-pump? - Beyond that; because while the engine the supplied we have brass plungers to our pumps, which would displace at every stroke, I think, a gallon and a half of water to every stroke, and they perform to every stroke; it is nearly 100 gallons a minute that we can throw overboard, and not stop our speed.

   233. In the event of your not been able to relieve yourself of water, might not this circumstance occur, that by increasing the water it would rise, not as in an ordinary vessel when no harm would arise till it has got many feet, but it at rose to any height it would affect your boiler and your coals? - Certainly, it depends upon the build of her; my vessel is a flat-bottomed vessel, but then flat-bottomed vessels have an immense floor, and contain a vast quantity of water before it rises over the timbers; but in vessels it would be an immense while before it reached the fire.

   234. How far would it be before it came to the fire? - It would rise four feet and a half; I should think that our furnace bars are about four feet.

   235. Could you get your coals? - We should have no difficulty in that.

   236. You think you can discharge 100 gallons a minute? - Yes.

   237. What means have you of preventing fire? - We have the same pumps to throw water, and we have all the pumps on the vessel's sides to draw water; but as boilers are at present constructed it is impossible for them while they have water around them to set fire to anything; they are encircled with water.

   238. Assuming that a fire happens near the engines in a vessel before it is discovered, what means would there be of putting it out beyond the hand-buckets? - None whatever.

   239. What is the greatest speed that you yourself have gone in your vessel at any time? - Barely ten knots.

   204. Without particularizing any other, what is the greatest speed you have known any others to go at? - I do not think any of them exceed 10 knots and a half.

   241. Have any of the engines high pressure on them? - None, that I am aware, except a French vessel at Dover.

   242. There is an Act of Parliament against it? - I believe there is.

   243. What is the danger of two vessels racing where there is a fair way, admitting that they do not run foul of each other? - There is no particular danger if the engineer is careful; but if the engineer allows himself to be excited by the circumstance and overloads the furnace bars, he made do harm in that way. There is no fear of the boilers bursting but from the intense heat of the fires; the water is consumed so fast that there has been instances where they have allowed it to get too low in the boiler; then, in that case, it is composed of nothing but froth and steam in the boiler; the plates of the boiler become red hot and close together.

   244. But there is no danger of the boiler is bursting? -Not with those boiler.

   245. During the eleven years that you have commanded this steam boat has any accident happened to your boat from the velocity of its going? – Not one.

   246. Suppose you had commanded a sailing vessel of the same size and of the same tonnage, would there in all probability have been fewer accidents or more? - I commanded a sailing vessel for five years from Ostend, Ramsgate and other parts, and I am sure that I unavoidably met with more accidents in the Pool than I have done with steam vessels; because we, under canvas, turn backward and forward, but the waterman never run ahead of us, they knew we have no power to stop them.

   247. Then the chances would have been that if you had commanded a sailing vessel instead of a steam vessel you would have met with more accidents? - I am quite sure it.

   248. Does the swell occasioned by the steam boat a rise from the velocity of its going, from the size of the boat, or from the quantity of matter with the boat contain? - The swell arises from the quantity of resistance opposed by the body of the vessel to the water. There are, for instance, vessels navigating the Pool that take in cargoes of 80 or 100 tons of goods, and they require a great deal of action on the part of the fans to make speed, but they would make less undulation then going at half speed.

   249. Then it does not arise entirely from the speed of the vessel's going? - It rises from the quantity of matter.

   258. If so were to go 10 knots in the river she would not make the same undulation as if she were to go only six? - No.

   251. Supposing that your vessel is going at the rate of six knots an hour, and you put the utmost speed at which you can go, is there any material difference between the undulation occasioned by the speed in going six knots an hour and in going ten? - There is more undulation at 10 knots.

   252. Supposing you are going nearly at full speed, and another vessel at half her size is going at half speed, which will occasion the greatest swell? - She would, because she displaces a greater body of water with the fans of her wheel, and she requires more driving through it.

   253. Then your opinion is, that the great swell rises more from the quantity of water than from the speed at which she is going? - Certainly.

   254. Have you ever watched to see from what part of the vessel's side the swell goes? - I have.

   255. Where do you find it? I should say that it goes at an angle of about 23 degrees from the vessel's side.

   256. Have you ever been in the steamboat in a very narrow channel between two banks? - Yes; I went into the river Lea, at Blackwall.

   257. Have you ever observed that the swell is considerably in advance of steam-boat? – Not if you continue to go on.

   258. In passing vessels have you any regulation at all as to keeping sides? - We have no decided regulation of that kind. It is so easy for vessels to avoid if they see each other; you see which side of the vessel is open, and you go to that side of her because it is easy to go that side. We have this rule in the river; the steam-boat that is going against tide keeps that side of the river where the tide is weakest; the other vessel keeps with the tide.

   259. And therefore they cross from side to side as they find it convenient? - Yes.

   259*. In a dark light as you can have no particular rule similar to what you have stated occurs in the day, what do you do? We had no established regulation, I do think that it would be a good thing to have a regulation of that kind.

   260. Do you come up on a dark night? - Yes, and we always order the lights, and come up very easy. The Pool at this moment is not 150 feet wide.

   261. Supposing in that a plan were adopted with respect all vessels coming up the river, and to all vessel's going down the river, that there would the three lights horizontal in the one case, and three nights perpendicular in the other; namely, three nights horizontal for vessel's going down, and three nights perpendicular for vessels coming up, do you not think that that would be you very convenient? - I should say that it would be very much so.

   262. Do you see any necessity for a change of form with respect to the manner in which the lights should be placed; if the lights were placed on the fore part of the vessel, they would know whether it was coming up or down? - I think any regulation of that sort would be beneficial.

   263. And sea if all vessels coming northward were to have one row of lights, and the others vice versa, you think that would be beneficial? - Yes.

   264. Will you described to the Committee why you think that form would be necessary? – Than or any other form, admitting it were understood; the form of the lights would be immaterial.

   265. Some such mould, up the river one way, and another the other way, when the beneficial? - Yes.

   266. You consider that night signals would be beneficial? -Yes.

   267. Does any steam boat go at night with the light at the stern? Two of them, they do not take the pain to mast it.

   268. Then you think that would be beneficial? - Yes, for suppose I was going down the river, then the signal would be three lights horizontal, and I say I have nothing to fear from that man; and then I see a vessel with three lights perpendicular, and I know the man in coming the other way. The form of the light is immaterial.

   269. Is there anything that you would suggest, any sort to signal by lights preferable to that which is now of adopted? - No, I think the suggestion would be a very great improvement; the more simple signals are, the better.

   270. From your experience, having navigation the Pool for 11 years, do you conceive that the chance of avoiding accidents would be greater if your speed was limited by Act of Parliament to six knots an hour, or if it was left that your own discretion to go at what at what speed you please? - If the speed of the steam boats was not decreased below six knots an hour, I think it would be an improvement.

   271. Is it more likely that accidents would occur by making a legislative enactment on the subject, or by leaving it to the discretion of the captains? It would depend upon the discretion of the captain, and I should like to have a discretionary power; I do not think there would be more danger, I think there would be less, by having it in my own discretion.

   272. While it that is your opinion from your competence of your own discretion, do you not think, as a measure of general policy to the public, that it would be desirable that there should be a regulation, provided they were not limited to less than five or six knots an hour? - I should think so, if there are not carried too low.

   273. If a regulation was made that the vessels were only to go at six knots an hour, might not cases a very often arise in which they might be put into danger, by not going faster? - They might arise. If I were asked the question candidly, whether it was my opinion that the steam vessels at present navigating the Pool should be allowed to come into it, or be put out of it, I should say that it will be better for them to be put out it, because the mischief to property is unavoidable, the whole of our coasting trade would be done by steam in seven years.

   274. You stated, that in 30 seconds you could stop your steam-boat before she went much more than half for own length; at what rate do you calculate the vessel to be going? - At full speed; I put Lord Fitzroy Somerset out of my vessel in 30 seconds, he wished to ascertain in what time it could be done.

   275. Supposing it was a regulation that steam-boats in the Pool should not exceed six knots in the Pool, could you stop your steam-boats at a shorter distance then when she was going nine or ten? - No, I think not; the immense surface of the fans oppose to the water is so instantaneous, that as the vessel is going quicker they oppose an immense quantity of water; the faster a vessel is going they will throw up more water.

   276. Then it would be quite the same, with respect to stopping a vessel, whether you were going ten knots or six knots an hour? - Yes.

   277. The Committee understand that with all the inconveniences and disadvantages connected with speed, you still think that there would be quite as many accidents happen with vessels in the ordinary way? - Yes, I am quite sure it; when Ramsgate had packets to London, we used to come in with all the canvas we could carry; you never then saw the watermen rowing up to the middle of the Pool, because they knew they had not the power to stop, and I do mean to say that there was more damage done to craft than there is now.

   [A letter from Captain K. B. Martin to the Committee was read as follows:]

   “To Colonel Sibthorp and the Gentlemen of the Committee on Steam Navigation.

   “Gentlemen,

   “I most respectfully submit a suggestion which I had intended to make, but which estate me in my evidence of yesterday. The undulation of the waters in all the rivers of United Kingdom are much increased by the violent competition of contending parties; as, for instance, in the Pool: A Margate and Gravesend boat starts at nine A.M. from the wharf near London Bridge; by the time there are abreast Saint Catherine's, a Margate and Gravesend the boat are sheering out from that place of embarkation also, and thus four powerful vessels are passing down the Pool at the same instant. Now, admitting they restrain their speed within the limits specified, still the inconvenience to craft of all kinds is increased in exact proportion to the number of vessels so closely following each other, and bound to the same place thus afford a strong temptation to additional exertion on the part of those in charge of them. This evil does not cease with the Pool; there are deep-loaded craft in many of the reaches of the river, and two steam vessels racing for the mastery necessarily create a greater swell by the meeting of their waters thrown off by the wheels. This would be much relieved if the vessels bound to the same port were not allowed to start at the same instant of time. If one started at nine, the other at half-past would be clear of her. The collision, the alarms of the timid, would cease. The passenger too late for one might avail himself of the other, and it would be a public accommodation. And merely throw out these hints for your consideration; and believing it my duty, as the commander of a steam packet, to give you every information in my power, I have obtained permission to attend this day in order to my being called if necessary. I have the honour to subscribe myself, Gentlemen, your most obedient servant,

   September 16th, 1831.

   Kennett B. Martin.”