Posted by: eagl

Date: August 13, 1997

Message:

I figured it was about time I donated something useful to this group instead of just posting followups. My intent is to spread the wealth around and maybe get some of the oldtimers tricks out to the newbies out there.

The topic is 1v1 merge tactics. I'd like to explain my favorite move and what I look for, and I hope others will post up their best merge as well. For discussion purposes, I will limit this to "set duels", 1v1 co-alt merges with no-headon initial merge.

This is my favorite move against players who I don't know a lot about or against guys I am relatively sure are not super accurate gunners. It has several benefits and one major risk. Prior to the merge, I select WEP to get as much speed as possible. I don't worry about running out since 99% of duels end long before WEP runs out. At the merge, I roll about 45 degrees from horizontal and pull into the mild blackout to get as much use out of my speed in excess of corner velocity. I gain some altitude in this pull as well as get some angles. As my turn reaches about 90 degrees of heading change with 40-50 degrees nose high, I roll my wings up to 90 degrees and begin to "float" the turn by letting off the pull a bit. Looking at the bandit, I assess my next move.

Case 1: If the player has made a purely horizontal turn, I bring my nose back to the horizon and pull to try to pass right over the bandit causing him to have to both turn and pull his nose up to shoot me. If you time it so you are getting the last bit of altitude out of your initial speed, I don't need to actually get pointed back at the bandit to defeat his shot. Ideally, I will keep him lower than me, and just forward of my wing leading edge as I pull over him. If he isn't an excellent shot or is greedy, he will keep trying for what appears to be an easy shot and will stall out as you pass over him. >From there, if I am feeling cautious I will continue to do a nearly horizontal turn to stay above him, and from then on I will probably have an energy advantage. I can keep taunting him with almost-but-not-quite shot opportunities that bleed his energy while letting me stay above him. If I am feeling king kong at any point, I just do a sliceback down to his 6 and blow him away.

Cautions: If you mis-time it and don't get high enough or cause enough angular problems, he can nail you in the skull as you watch him out the side window. If he is in a p-38, he can continue to point at you well below stall speed so this may not be a good merge against someone who flies the p-38 a lot.

Benefits: By giving away some angles (he is pointing at you while you are looking out the side at him), you can gain an energy advantage that you can keep the entire fight.

Case 2: If the bandit uses vertical instead of a pure horizontal turn, this merge still can work. If the bandit uses a pure vertical turn (immelman/loop), he will be likely be rather slow at the top. In that case, your goal is to get INSIDE his loop with enough speed to nail him as he recovers from his vertical turn. If you note that your opponent is using pure vertical, get your nose back to the horizon and make your turn more flat as you point back underneath him. Expect him to come screaming down the backside of his loop or immelman and overshoot back down below you as he points for the quick kill since again, he thinks he is getting the easy win/kill. If you are back inside his loop however, there is no way short of a hammerhead turn at the top that he can get at you. If he continues a looping fight, you are already nose on the horizon inside his loop so just nail him in a snapshot as he comes back up or goes back down thru the horizon.

Benefits: If you can use an energy saving pitchback towards the second merge while he uses an energy losing pure vertical turn , you can arrive back inside his loop with more speed and energy even though at times he is above you. Use it to get snapshots and force the fight more horizontal to make him transition from looping to horiz turn.

Serious risks: Again against the p38, this whole thing can blow up in your face. The p38 is capable of doing 3 consecutive immelmans, so it is possible that even though he does one immelman and you get inside his loop, instead of coming back down he will just roll out at the top and pull into a second and even a third immelman. If this happens, you are pretty much toast if you are stuck nose on the horizon inside his loops. Against most other planes though, you are "safe" inside the loop and can dictate whether he continues looping or must begin a guns defense as you take snapshots at him.

Summary: The key here is to conserve energy while letting the bandit bleed his away going for the quick kill. When it works, it works extremely well as even though he has horizontal angles on you, you are just high enough to avoid getting shot. Ideally, you will be looking at him out the side window a bit below you, trying to pull up for a climbing turning shot, as you bank into him and pull across above him. Don't let him get BEHIND your wingline, because you aren't creating any angle problems for him to solve. From then on, if you see him firing at you and missing, you OWN him because he just cashed in all his chips. Unfortunately, the margin for error is rather small. If you underpull, waste too much energy in the initial zoom, pull too flat or pull too much in the vert, you don't give him the combination of horizontal and vertical turn that will keep you out of his sights. If this happens, you will probably pick up some pings which is fatal against an opponent with cannon. Even if you pick up a few pings though, don't give up. To get those pings he had to bleed off energy so you will still have an advantage in the fight unless of course you die first :)

Final tactic note: This merge doesn't work well at all when the planes are p38s or zeeks. I have proven it against most all other planes flown by talented pilots, and I think it has merit.

Well. Thats one way to do a merge. Anyone else? I KNOW there are skilled users of the multiple-immelman tactic, and I'd like to at least hear their thoughts.

eagl

From: fats

Message:

>Case 2:

>Benefits: If you can use an energy saving pitchback towards the secondmerge while he uses an energy losing pure vertical turn

This part I don't quite follow. I reckon a zoom ended by an immelman will give me more altitude than your pitchback. And you cannot catch me RIGHT away from the pitchback. But your pitchback turns you around faster than my zoom+immel and allows you to accelerate and then zoom.

The Immel doesn't have to be straight of course, use roll to (over) match your turn. Hopefully get to fly above you even after unloading and do the second vertical part straight above you. The second vertical maneuver doesn't have to be immelman or anything else recognized as an aerobatic maneuver, just gotta make sure you fall down later/slower than the enemy following you.

Not sure if I quite understod your maneuver, never having seen it (?).

At least on paper I would still go for pure vertical in first maneuver, second may involve some horisontal turning.

 From: eagl

Message:

> This part I don't quite follow. I recon a zoom ended by an immelman will give me more altitude than your pitchback. And you cannot catch me RIGHT away from the pitchback. But your pitchback turns you around faster than my zoom+immel and allows you to accelerate and then zoom.

Try it. Do an immelman and note your speed and alt at the top, then do a big lazy wingover thing never exceeding 45 deg of bank or 60 deg nose high, rolling out after 180 degrees of turn and note speed and alt. The immelman will result in lower speed and alt at the top because for a good deal of the vert manuver, the wings are not helping the climb at all, while in the chandelle (the actual name of the pitchback style reversal), your wings are providing lift throughout the entire manuver in addition to the engine helping pull you up.

> Not sure if I quite understod your maneuver, never having seen it (?). At least on paper I would still go for pure vertical in first maneuver, second may involve some horisontal turning.

Essentially, my merge consists of a chandelle tightened down enough to defeat the other guys shot. Look up chandelle in any flight manual for a different explanation.

eagl

From: fats

Message:

>Try it. Do an immelman and note your speed and alt at the top, then do a big lazy wingover thing never exceeding 45 deg of bank or 60 deg nose high, rolling out after 180 degrees of turn and note speed and alt. The immelman will result in lower speed and alt at the top because for a good deal of the vert manuver, the wings are not helping the climb at all, while in the chandelle

Actually I have done it already, and my chandelles must be porked or something (they are 7mph too slow). I decided straight vertical maneuver would suite 109 (when I am in it) for gaining energy advantage better. One reason was cause you could start hanging from the prop when ever you wanted to. Have to take another look I guess.

From: DocDoom

Message:

Well being a 109 driver Fats, we *expect* you *would* tend to want to go for the pure vertical ;]

I was going to outline my version of the faster more BnZ orientated merge... however...it probably wouldn't suit the more "extend extend extend!" bias that I seem to see being employed by the BnZ crowd. Pity really, if you do it right, these Fw190s can turn like you wouldn't believe.

<well, present company excepted, I'm sure you WOULD believe it>

Words across ch.100 one night in the arena, from a Ki84 I'd just cut to pieces after a 10 minute dogfight for advantage, while I was in the A8.

"bloody! how do you turn a fw so tight ?!? I thought there were two of you for a minute there !"

Priceless words those, I don't think I'll ever let myself forget those ones ;]

Doc.

<PS. The reason it took 10 minutes in an A8 is I was out of cannon from the previous 5 kills over the F3 clusterf&@% minutes earlier. Down to MG's..>

Posted by: Kats

Message:

My approach to the 1vs.1 merge is very simple and effective.

First off, my choice of plane is the one with the best climb, the 109k but a ki84 is almost as good.

At the merge I pull into a low G climb into the vertical climb to about 85 degrees and look to see what the enemy is doing. If the enemy looped and tried to follow me up he will stall before I do, at which point I hammerhead and kill an easy target. If the enemy does the same thing as I do, I will beat him in the E fight unless he is also flying a 109k. If the enemy pulled a flat horizontal turn, he is an idiot and will die fast, as I will have total E advantage throughout the whole engagement. If he is flying a 109k, the victor will be the pilot who can perform a better hammerhead and who entered the climb with the the least amount of E loss. If the enemy does anything else at all I keep repeating this maneuver diving on him after the hammerhead and taking the snapshot over and over and over. I don't care because he can never get a shot on me and I have all the time in the world.

Using this maneuver negates anything the con does.. he can turn flat, lead vertical turn whatever, I ignore him(and don't get suckered into turning) and just keep diving on him and going back into the vertical. You see the only time the con is on my 6 is when I am climbing, as long as I have a separation of about 800-1000 yards he will always peak before I do because he pulled the half loop (blowing E) to get onto my 6 whereas I never made a move onto his 6 , I only went into the vertical conserving E.

There is a point where your E advantage is so great that half looping and getting more agressive(if you haven't killed him by now)is in order.

(I hope I made sense)

The only thing you have to watch is for the lead turn (especially the vertical lead turn) but this is easy to spot. If I spot a lead turn I wait about 5 sec before going into climb to get as much separation as possible then go into the climb at which point the bogey has blown all his E for that one crack at me.

Posted by: Hoof

Message:

I'd say for this stunt (use it all the time in the arena), the Ki84 is better (as usual, depending on the circumstances). While the 109k has a slightly better zoom than the Ki84 above about 8,000ft, below it's almost neglible, and the lower wing loading and much better low-speed handling really make a difference.

The low wing loading helps conserve E on the quarter loop into vertical (both have similar wing aspects, so this really doesn't factor into it), and the supurb low-speed handling allows you to get to 40mph before having to kill gas, then you can actually tail-slide here (a la P38) for a bit to further help in the vertical game (hopefully convincing the guy below that you're still going up). Then a quick kick, pop a level of flap (love those manoevering flaps), and down you come. After the gun pass pull those flaps in, and ease back up into the zoom. Repeat.

The 109K4, while it zooms extremely well, doesn't have the low-speed handling to make the shot if he isn't far enough below to accelerate to 100mph first, and he is off to the side a bit. But when he isn't, a few 30mm rounds sure shortens the lifespan of the duel :)

Another variation I get Zekes on all the time (in the Ki84) is to do an 3/4ths immelman, to make him think I'm coming over the top and back down. He rolls over in his immelman, pulls up for the HO shot (to meet my supposed guns pass), and when I'm still about 40-50 degreese nose-high, I'll roll 135 degrees and start a very-low-speed spiral climb.

Naturally he stalls, I roll back down, drop down on him, and watch one of the rare times a zeke can't do a damned thing as I fill him with 20mm. Works with everything pratically other than a P38 (who's vectored thrust mechanism and nose-mounted guns with gobs of ammo allow him to point/shoot at you all the way).

Posted by: Kats

Message:

"While the 109k has a slightly better zoom than the Ki84 above about 8,000ft, below it's almost neglible"

Over 11000ft the 109k has a 500ft /min climb advantage. Besides, for the ki84 to get on my 6 he has to make a 180 flat turn or a 135 degree vertical turn, whereas I have only made a 90 turn into the vertical climb. This puts the aggressor at an E disadvantage and will not even come close to me in the zoom. If he refuses to engage it's a stalemate, if he trys for my 6 he will die :)

I am assuming co-E at the merge of course.

Posted by: Hoof

Message:

And assuming that the Ki doesn't try the same stunt on you, in which case you both stall and hammerhead/flip at about the same time (separated by a horizontal distance of about the sum of the turning radius used in each's pull-up manoever). What happens next can be very interesting and the low speed handling/performance can become quite an asset to the Ki pilot.

What happens is that gravity pulls you down. The guy who stays above the other will be in an advantageous position, as both the Ki and 109K have similar high speed control and top speeds, so neither can guarantee a dive-escape (again below about 11,000ft, which if you started at 5,000ft or even 10,000ft you will be if you dive/extend). Thus it now resolves into a match of who can stay higher as each tries to arrest his fall, level out, accelerate and start climbing. Again the Ki84 has the edge as she can do amazing things with flaps down at 50-75mph and once at 100mph you pull those flaps in and accelerate towards your opponent. Then the lower vertical manoevering speed again helps the Ki84 allowing it to do another half-loop after only about 10-15 seconds after his hammerhead occurs.

The 109K pilot (assuming nether have taken fire yet) is forced to dive or risk getting outmanoevered in a slow-speed E fight (in which he suffers due to higher wing loading and greater induced drag as a result killing his acceleration).

If the Ki pilot is on the ball, then he simply dives after the 109K pilot and we have a potential stalemate, as the 109K pilot dives and extends, unfortunately not gaining losing ground (again if the Ki is on the ball and times it right). Net lag hurts the 109K pilot now as the speeds approach 400-450mph the range 8 shot the ki pilot had at the beginning of the dive dies down to range 4. But if the Ki pilot is smart he doesn't fire (unless he's a good shot) so he doesn't lose speed. Anyway it can get real boring at this point as both pilots have 10 minutes of WEP, and both have similar speeds under 10k.

Now if the Ki84 pilot is a dweeb and tries for the early kill (max-g immelman or horizontal turn) you've got him. But if he's any good, he knows of this trick and has a large portion of his kill decals from just this manoever. Most E fighters know the key is to get above the target with more E than him, so the Ki pilot is very likely to keep going up after 90 degrees of pull-up just like the 109K pilot. This fight is still much more interesting than the usual factory-built post immelman Russian Roulette that usually occurs.

Oh, and you're superior zoom climb becomes a liability if he anticipates this and starts his zoom before the merge, flying right under ya in a perfect shot opportunity :)

As usual, pilot skill plays a rather large role.

One other note: The down side of this zoom climb with an opponent with similar zoom is that sure, you may stall out above him and later, but you really want range 4+ on his FE to do this (6-8 or more is even better). The Ki driver, turning a low-g 135 degrees isn't gonna be that far behind, and he may be looking up at you, you both hanging on your props, you range d2-d4 above him, he with you in crosshairs unloading a couple-dozen 20mm into you :)

Agains a similar zooming plane, the 90 degree quarter loop and pure vertical loop can land you a couple of 20mm. Of course if he misses he's in trouble ... {G}