Posted by: hobo

Message: I convinced a friend of mine to sign up for WB's and had him on last night. We started in the MA but moved to the dueling arena for some practice. He did fairly well in EZ mode but had big problems in *real* mode. So the question is...In your opinion (humble or otherwise) what is the best way to get him up and going with a minimum amount of time spent?

He can't really use the IMOL trainers since he works swing shift and only gets on around midnight PDT. I don't want to see him get discouraged and quit, so any tips you might have would be welcome.

So far I've worked with him to do some things offline. I've also given him some tips and showed him how to turn in the vertical. I'm tryin to convince him to stay away from the FW's and the Hog until he gets better. Do you have any recommendations for airplanes?

Thanks!

Hobo

Posted by: ik Jagdgeschwader 77

Message:

Today my friend was up in the air today with my account so if you shot me down in the MA that wasn't me, i'm sooooo sorry to dissapoint you all (VBG).

Also, what is the best newbie plane? Should i really stick the greenie in a Spit so he can go kill a bunch, or a p40 so he'll learn the value of starting above your opponent? I wonder if it's even worth it though, he's the type who's more impressed with eye candy rather than fm. Any ways to sway him from that foolishness? (G)

ik

Posted by: jedi

Message:

: Today my friend was up in the air today with my account so if you shot me down in the MA that wasn't me, i'm sooooo sorry to dissapoint you all (VBG).

: Also, what is the best newbie plane? Should i really stick the greenie in a Spit so he can go kill a bunch, or a p40 so he'll learn the value of starting above your opponent? I wonder if it's even worth it though, he's the type who's more impressed with eye candy rather than fm. Any ways to sway him from that foolishness? (G)

: ik

If you're gonna give him a coupla hours and send him out the door, give him the Spit. It spans the entire RPS, it's not just a stallfighter, it takes a little skill to keep from stalling and spinning, and it doesn't have infinite ammo. Yes, you may just create another furball weenie, but we can never have too many of those.

If you're in it for the duration, start him on the P-38. Easy handling, good turn, climb, and speed, lotsa bullets, nose-mounted guns. Can't outturn, outclimb, outrun everything, but can do those to plenty of planes. Once he thinks he's a god, put him in the Hellcat or Corsair to teach him about SA and gunnery and using E instead of turn rate. Then let him fly the Spit to bring his self-esteem back up a bit. Then give him a tour in the 190 and P-51, to see what it's like in planes that pretty much have to Boom and Zoom. Then kick him out of the nest.

:-) jedi

Posted by: Topcat (RAF, Duxford Wing)

Message:

: Also, what is the best newbie plane? Should i really stick the greenie in a Spit so he can go kill a bunch, or a p40 so he'll learn the value of starting above your opponent?

I would suggest putting newbies in a plane that they can enjoy flying (dying?!) in. Once they've gained some confidence they can start learning about energy fighting etc etc. Don't forget, this is a game. The first thing that's needed is to have fun. If they're not having fun, it's bye-bye Warbirds. IMO for most people new to WB fun = getting into some large furballs and getting some kills. Perhaps the Spit, but there may be a better alternative.

:I wonder if it's even worth it though, he's the type who's more impressed with eye candy rather than fm. Any ways to sway him from that foolishness? (G)

Let him enjoy the eye candy in 3D (if you have it, and I hope I'm not commiting a horrible faux pas if you have a Mac). After that, he'll slowly start to learn more and more. Hell, after a couple of days reading AGW he'll soon be an expert with opinions of his own (vbg). If you've not got 3D then you can but hope that he'll enjoy himself so much that he won't care about the eye candy.

Posted by: Popeye

Message:

The most important thing to learn is Situational Awareness. Have him fly a Cat [F6F Hellcat] for a while. After getting wacked from the blind six a couple of dozen times, he will start to learn SA. Also, the Cat has decent climb and speed, turns okay, plenty of ammo, is durable, and can dive away from trouble.

Popeye

Posted by: Grant Iddon

Homepage: Grant's Warbirds

Message: See my page listed above

Grant

Posted by: -idri-

Message: Best tip I can think of is to continually reinforce the expectation that it will take a year of study and regular flying to get to the point where one can anticipate becoming an average pilot. Know you will die thousands of ignoble deaths on the way to achieving a one to one kill to death ratio. Divorce yourself from your ego and understand that once you become an "average" WarBirds pilot, you will be able to compete with the top 1,000 virtual pilots in the world without embarrassing yourself *too* badly. Too, along the way, don't forget to have some fun and exercise some humor.

-idri-

Posted by: =Scop=

Message: I always start off with stick set (ICI default hrmm sucks for some reason), then work on turning and leanring to ride the stall then move on to hitting a target:)

(for a good easy stick set- you can email me scorpyATcris.com)

Scorpion

Posted by: wells

Message: We learn by the consequences of our actions. When a 'newbie' first starts off, he/she wants to kill something. Kill = fun at first. They will not know the importance of other stuff like SA, E management and avoidance until they die MANY times! I would recommend a plane like a Spit V or Spit IX which probably gives one the best overall chances to kill something, yet has limited enough ammo that it must be used sparingly. Only time will take care of the rest.

wells

Posted by: Walt (lt-buhd-lite) Barrow

Message: I agree with the philosophy of picking a plane set and sticking with it until you get the hang of things.

I started with the Spit and the P-40. Other planes recommended above (below?) are good, too. The thing is -- fly, fly, fly. Offline, practice your BFM and ACM over and over and over and over and (well, you get the message). Practice take offs, landings, drone kills, etc.

Then, find a friend who you can stand to kill you (virtually speaking, of course) and fly a lot of H2H with that person. I sucked in the MA (still do, but what the hey) until I got my first kills in H2H without all the pressure. Then things took on a whole new perspective for me. I began to recognize situations where kills are possible and whole new vistas opened up to me.

Just my opinion ...

Thanks!

ltlite, out

Posted by: Stiglr Stab/JG5 Eismeer

Message: If your buddy is a first-timer to all flight games, he needs to learn the real flight basics, like taking off, landing and maintaining controlled flight first. Many overlook this, and develop lots of problems because they're trying to learn to kill something before they're even cleared to leave the tower!!

If he has a reasonable knowledge of flight sim concepts, I'd first, choose a Spit V or IX. These planes can T&B, and also B&Z, they're docile, have reasonable visibility, the works. H2H with him and work him thru basic maneuvers. Get him those newbie internet links, and let him also work on it himself. Or, if you can, have him .obs you in the Arena, so you can show him some of the concepts you've tried to impart offline, *in combat*. If you can have a voice link set up, so you can kind of give a running commentary ("I'm gonna throttle down and dive in on the Zeke") ("I'm gonna do that Immelman manuever we talked about!"), so much the better.

Energy and basic Shaw concepts are so hard for newbies to grasp, yet so essential. Try and get him interested in learning this stuff ASAP. Also, the concept of situational awareness. Get him pointed away from dweebishness at the earliest opportunity.

Stiglr Stab/JG5 Eismeer

Posted by: HEDU Pale riders/Kommando Nowotny

Message: The one tip i got when i stared out was to learn one plane and learn it well. I wanted to start on my favorite, the Corsiar, but I thought about it and decided to start on the 109. The 109 Franz became my favorite, and with the RPS, it was a godsend. I can fly alone at altitude and be pretty confidant that I can fight or flee at will, and thats another tip, KNOW when to flee. Learn the corner speed of that airplane, learn how to use flaps to your advantage. So many pilots think that you should turn inside other planes when you are hauling balls, and thats just not true.

After learning the plane, learn basic ACM, rolls, immelmans, split-s and the such. After learning the basics, you can see which plane you would rather fly, be it a turn and burn or zoom and boom. Don't go zoom and boom if you don't have the patience to hunt. CRUTCH taught me the hunt in a P-47d, and the thrill of the kill is great. Takes a lot more skill to kill in the P-47 zoom and booming than it does in a 109 in a furball. The other guys sees you too early, and your attack run can be screwed. This is what I was taught, and even tho i've benn flying for three years, I can still learn from others, and still ask questions and opinions of others.

HEDU

Posted by: ik

Message: My recommendation for a newbie's plane is probably a 109f, p40e, or yak9. None are great tnb planes, and none are great bnz planes. All of them fall somewhere in the middle of the road, so he wont be able to rely on just ONE tactic to save his ass. The spit method, and 38 method, USUALLY (not always) make a wb pilot who only flys 1 or 2 planes, and wont touch something without cannon.

ik

Posted by: awgr

Message: My recommendation for a newbie's plane is probably a 109f, p40e, or yak9. None are great tnb planes, and none are great bnz planes. All of them fall somewhere in the middle of the road, so he wont be able to rely on just ONE tactic to save his ass.

Gustav is even more "middle of the road" compared to its contemporaries than the Franz (which is much more of a T&B bird but can still outpace the older spits). I've always steered new guys to the Bf109 series -- damn-near impossible to learn any bad habits in it, and what you do learn is directly applicable to every other airplane in the RPS.

- The *REAL* Auger (awgr)

Posted by: Bino (II./JG54)

Message: : My recommendation for a newbie's plane is probably a 109f, p40e, or yak9. None are great tnb planes, and none are great bnz planes. All of them fall somewhere in the middle of the road, so he wont be able to rely on just ONE tactic to save his ass. The spit method, and 38 method, USUALLY (not always) make a wb pilot who only flys 1 or 2 planes, and wont touch something without cannon.

: ik

Well, I started with the Mk. V and IX versions of the Spitfire. And while I most certainly do enjoy flying cannon-wagons (Most especially the FW-190A-4. Not many think it can turn. Muahahaha...), I also relish the time I spend in YAKs, Mustangs, 109s, Zeros, Corsairs, Oscars, Hellcats, and various bombers.

bino--

Posted by: Hacker

Message:

Planes: Spit I V, IX. They are very stable and forgiving and are not to pitch sensitive if nose bounce/spike is an issue. They have great guns-until the cannon runs out that is. Plus they have good durablity. Hard to teach someone how to react under fire if their Ki-43 or Zero wing come off with one ping. The P-40E Early war and Ki84 Late war are also good and for the same reasons. Keep him away from the XIV, like the FWs and F4Us it's to hard to handle.

Training: If you do not want to break him in slowly in easy flight mode the I suggest H2H in *real* mode with him often. Before you blow him out of the sky, make sure he knows how to handle his plane. Have him do hanger fly throughs for instance. Have him do low speed manoevers close to the ground and you chasing him but *NOT* firing on him. See if he can lose you. Similarly, have him chase *you* without him firing and see if he can follow you through manoevers. After you done all that *then* do "live fire" excercises and work on his marksmenship.

--->-hack-

Posted by: Yak

Message: First of all, he CAN use the trainers. Just email them and set up a pre-arranged personal appointment. They do it all the time, and would be happy to help him.

That's what I did when I first signed on wbs, when i was playing from Japan.

As for planes, whatever he flies, make sure he flies the same AC as much as possible while first starting out. He's going to suck at first no matter what (we all did), but there's no point in having him get confused flying a lot of different ac that respond differently.

I recommend planes that fly 'easily', aren't made of paper, and are NOT turn andburners, because those planes will just teach him to be a dweeb.

My recs:

P40B

P51B

P51D

Those planes can take you all the way through the war (except the first day), and they are gentle handlers. They don't have cannons to teach you spray and pray, but they are excellent E fighting platforms. They have reasonable SA requirements, but nothing as bad a a f6f or corsair. They don't fly funky like some LW planes, and they aren't made of rice paper.

Good luck to you and your friend. Let us know how it comes out!

Yak

Posted by: krod

Homepage: krod's WarBirds Pages

Message: Well, try my pages (link above). Also the *new* WarBirds Training Pages cobbled together by yours truly at:

http://www3.imagiconline.com/training/

Also see this link for newbie plane recommendations:

http://www3.imagiconline.com/training/basic-first-plane.html

Hope this helps...

Krod

Posted by: Bino (II./JG54)

Message: Krod's pages are a very good place to start.

Personally, I followed the advice I found on HOOF's WarBirds Plane Performance Page (http://www.rdrop.com/users/hoofj/) is *still* one of the better places for planeinfo), and flew the Spitfire Mk. V and then the Mk. IX in my initial few months online.

The cockpit view is OK, the short clip teaches frugality, and both marks are fairly good at both horizontal and vertical moves.

bino--

Posted by: ik

Message: I disagree with the spit for dweebs approach. After they fly a spit, learn it, and can kill with it, the newbie trys other ac and gets his ass wupped. He becomes eternally biased to those ac which "kick butt" like the spit does. I like yak's suggestion above, and i think the p40 is an excellent beginners choice, same with the p51. Both are easy to fly, easy to take off in (the spit is a hanfull on take off) and dont stall or spin suddenly at low speeds. Also, the 50 calibre machine guns will teach a pilot how to shoot a sustained burst on an nme, while a spitfire can kill with glancing snap shots.

ik

Posted by: Walt (lt-buhd-lite) Barrow

Message: ... i think the p40 is an excellent beginners choice ...

I agree with the P-40 as a good choice. I've been flying it exclusively myself this tour and while I'm getting my arse wiped, I'm also learning a lot about flying that I didn't know before. To do anything with it, you have to learn about energy, altitude, finesse, gentle touch (i.e., don't pull too hard unless you absoulutely have to), and how good it is to have friends around!

Thanks!

ltlite, out