| Cuban 8 |
| - |
| Last update - 19 September 1999 |
airbss posted March 25, 1999 11:24 AM Could someone descibe this move. I would like to know how to perform it, and in what situations it should be used. I think this is a maneuver Worr used on me once and I was amazed, it looked awesome and I barely escaped. I had to junk my airplane after landing . I believe he transitioned from doing low yo yo's to cuban eights once we were at sea level, but I'm not certain. Anyone out there willing to share their expertise? |
 |
Bino posted March 25, 1999 11:30 AM A Cuban Eight is an airshow manuever, really, but a Half Cuban Eight can often be handy in the MA if you don't have enough speed to pull off a half-loop/half-roll "Immelmann". For the HCE, from straight and level flight, pull the nose up about 45 degrees, with wings level. When you don't want to get any slower, roll inverted and pull an inside half-loop. Overall effect: you will end up having reversed your course 180 degrees, and at almost the same altitude (or a bit lower). Compared to an Immelmann, you will be faster (kinetic E) on exit, though lower (potential E).
Kobra posted March 25, 1999 11:31 AM A cuban 8 will look like an 8 on it's side. You go up in the initial loop and while on the way down the back side roll wings up when you're about at a 45 degree angle downward, then back up into the 2nd half of the 8. Lather rinse repeat.
Jekyll posted March 25, 1999 08:01 PM I may be getting confused here, but I always understood a Cuban 8 to be the following: picture a figure 8 laid on its side... now with us heading to the right and starting from the CENTRE of the 8, we go into a 45degree climb, followed by a half roll and inverted inside loop back to our initial centre position.. we continue our climb and again half roll, inverted inside loop and exit the maneuver back at the centre of the 8. Or is that the 'Modified Cuban 8' It been so long since I did R/C aerobatics
jedi posted March 25, 1999 08:50 PM The Cuban-8 the Air Force teaches is basically what Kobra describes. Dive down to pick up speed (most of the WB planes can go over the top from level flight, but the T-37 and T-38 generally couldn't), pull up into a loop. As you come down the "back side" of the loop, roll 180 degrees so that you're not inverted, and dive down at 45 degrees. You're now halfway through. At the same altitude you started your pull-up for the first loop, start a pull-up for a second iteration of the same manuever. The whole thing will look like an "8" on it's side. Now a "cloverleaf," THAT's a hard one to describe But not as hard as a rolling scissors. --jedi
puddle posted April 07, 1999 12:05 PM If you'll pardon the superciliousness of a relative newbie posting a reply here, I got to see the Cuban Eight in the air weekend before last at an A-10 demonstration. Basically, most of you were right, it's a "lazy 8" involving two loops. The dive back thru the middle of the maneuver is held inverted until the target or ground mark is centered up in your sights. For the aerobatics version (which we got to see several times by other specifically show aircraft) you hold the inverted fight until just before you reach the center of the 8, at which time you do a snap roll and finish the other side of the maneuver. Grading is apparently based on exact 45-degree angles and how far the inverted flight can be pushed. In combat it's seldom a good idea to attack even a ground target with a Warthog in the inverted position, so they roll closer to the top (side?) of the lazy 8 and blaze away with that GAU-8 as they dive. As I commented in another post, A-10s regularly use this maneuver to return to a ground target over and over quickly since they're able to fly Cuban 8's all day long. (My personal best is three in a P-51, most of you will do better) They claim that one A-10 can reacquire a target every 15 seconds, but they're usually doing this in pairs -- one running a N-S axis, for example, while the other runs E-W - raining death and destruction on some poor ground target every 7-10 seconds. -puddle out
BB Gun posted April 07, 1999 02:42 PM Half cuban eight is a gooed reversal when you are being chased by a con that won't leav you alone. The tricky part is knowing when to do it so you don't get pasted on the climb into it, or during the reversal. What's nice about it is that you come out at nearly the same speed and alt as when you went into it, and if the enemy is not expecting it, and has followed you up into the climb (beyond guns range) you can gain a lot of angles as he tries to reaquire you as you pass under his nose (either directly or obliquely). I haven;t gotten it down as yet, because I tend to start it too early, with the chasing con too close. Brendan "BB Gun" Bayne
Havloc posted April 07, 1999 07:07 PM Puddle, the "Lazy 8" is a differnt manuver all together. Again using the image of an 8 on it's side. The planes nose would draw this on the horizon. It is taught in commercial pilot manuvers, but I have discovered with the help of --yt-- it has practical MA applications. It is also a reversing manuver good for conserving E and learning coordination. You start with a shallow climb and the roll into the direction you want to turn. Continue adding pitch and bank thru the first 45 degrees of the turn. By 90 degrees pitch should be neutral and bank 90-100 degrees and the nose of the plane has drawn a half circle above the horizon. The nose should be dropping below the horizon and start reducing bank and adding pitch thru the next 45 degrees. The final 180 you will have come back to wings level and the nose has drawn a half circle below the horizon and your altitude should be the same as it was at entry. For the commercial pilot manuver we would now do another in the oppisite direction, but for the MA half the manuver is enough for what we want to do. What I've been doing with this in the MA, is turning tighter than an normally better turning AC. It will suprise many a Zeke driver. Also, the HO merge. Start by diving and turning slightly away from the opponent D10-15 now imagine the half circle above the horizon and put the enemy plane in the first 45 degree part of that arc. About D5-7 start the manuver and open up with guns untill your nose is past the enemy. Continue with the manuver and when you finnish the enemys plane will find you on his 6 at D5 often in his blind spot if they continued straight ahead. Havloc
airbss posted April 08, 1999 10:29 AM I have seen this manuever that havloc describes. Here how I understand it, correct me if I am wrong havloc. The idea is to conserve more e than the con as he tries to pull lead, etc. Through each part of the eight one begins to gain angles. However, its important to start the maneuver with the con slightly out of plane and at certain distances otherwise he can easily nail you. After a few turns the cons can't follow and you have reversed roles.
Havloc posted April 08, 1999 06:36 PM Yes, if you are going to use it in a stall fight, the enemy needs to be close in. How close or how far I havn't quit gauged yet, maybe --yt-- could pipe in? As he has been using it longer than I have. What I have noticed the better the turn and the better the gunner the closer you would want them. I have been using it with mixed success at D2-3. The critical points are the begining of the manuver and at the 90 spot where you are slowest. If I get nailed its one of these two points. As far as the E state goes you will exit with the same E as you started with. Where your opponent most likly has done a flat turn and burned off some of his E. If you can get them to go a few of these turns with you, you should end up with the upper hand. Havloc |