phoenx posted 02-15-99 09:34 PM ET (US)        

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When I first started WB, I tried landing without an elevator about a half-dozen times.

Each time, I seemed to have enough control for a landing to work, but as my speed dropped on approach the plane would nose-down into a fatal crash landing. I can't remember which planes I tried it in, since I was trying them all at that point, and since I was just starting out, I didn't try any fancy trim tricks. I haven't tried this in months. Is this maneuver possible? Which planes can do it, and how?

phoenx (Lucky 13)

holst FT posted 02-15-99 09:55 PM ET (US)            

phoenx:

I've managed no vator landings in most if not all of the planes in WB (is that a good sign or a bad one? ) Some are definetly easier than others...

The key seems to be maintaining an appropriate speed all the way down. You ahve to maintain a little bit of control authority.

Generally I keep the trim neutral till over the numbers, then crank it up and cut the engine while holding the stick in my lap.

Trikes are alot harder than conventional geared planes...ju88 is no picnic either, as it has very little vator response to begin with.

At any rate, advice:

1) Do not, under any circumstances, use flaps. If you use flaps, you will die.

2) Keep the speed at or right above the speed that allows neutral pitch stability. This will require constant throttle jockying, which is a new thing for most of us used to cut the throttle and plummet in method of approach. (The FAA would love y'all though.)

3) Cut the engine over the numbers and don't be afraid to wheel it on, but make sure you have enough speed left to get the nose up.

Regards,

holst-FT

(Flying Tigers)

Konrad posted 02-15-99 10:08 PM ET (US)            

Well, if you are in a plane with good rudder like a 109 or 190, if your nose is too low you can always roll left or right 70-90 degrees and rudder 'up'. Don't try this in planes like the F6f though, it seems to just loose more speed and nose down even more if you try it.

Konrad

Jg77

Lizking posted 02-15-99 10:09 PM ET (US)            

Upside down and on Fire as a rule...

buile posted 02-15-99 10:58 PM ET (US)         

Hello,

If you find yourself in a plane without an elevator, find out the *slowest* speed you can fly and still have some pitch control. You need to find that speed that lets you fly level. It varies from plane to plane. Test it as you fly.

You need to make your approach very long, and very shallow. Keep your airspeed just to where you have a little control. Do not use flaps at all! You will not be able to sink onto the runway in the normal manner. You are looking to fly almost level onto the end of the runway.

If you find that you are too high and too hot, "pour on the coals and boot it outta there!" <a little reference to zenos warbird drive-in. Check it out if you haven't been there before-- www.zenoswarbirdvideos.com>. Go around for another approach if you want to live through the landing. Next time, come in even more shallow, remembering to stick at the airspeed that gives you just enough elevator authority to put the nose above the horizon if you need to get it there.

Once you reach the end of the runway, cut your throttle. Keep pulling the stick back like Holst says in an attempt to stay flying jussst above the runway. Hopefully you will slow down enough to get your gear down while you're settling (okay plummeting) to the runway. Oftentimes you will bounce kind of hard. If i find myself airborne after a bounce, i will do everything i can to slow down: start firing all guns and dropping flaps. Hopefully your approach was waaayy shallow enough to keep a bounce from spelling disaster!

Good Luck!

buile-

Hooligan posted 02-15-99 11:44 PM ET (US)            

Go in with gear down at about 200 kts or a little bit less, Apply lots of "up trim" (the k key). High wing-loading aircraft (FWs P47) require higher speed. Lower wing loading (spit) and carrier based planes will allow you to go in slower.

Hooligan

funked posted 02-16-99 01:16 AM ET (US)            

To summarize:

1. Trim elevator all the way up. If the plane climbs use down elevator to hold it.

2. NO FLAPS

3. Keep your speed high enough so that the plane can still climb with max up elevator.

4. Otherwise it's just like a normal landing, you just have less elevator to work with.

Honker posted 02-16-99 02:41 AM ET (US)            

Well funked, normal - but for most if not all aircraft a bit on the "HOT" side.

With the buffs I find banking and using the rudder helps a lot in setting up the glide path and bleeding off speed.

dbng posted 02-16-99 06:05 AM ET (US)            

You have to be steady with throttle and controls, get low a long ways out from the field and get down to ger speed as you are just off the runway, don't put gear down till you are over the numbers! I managed to land my 38 with no elv and no eng in the 2 vs 2 at con 98 when vila got my elv and I ran outta fuel trying to make passes at his 1 eng 38. I have landed planes in worse shape, it just takes a patient hand.

flyp posted 02-16-99 11:13 AM ET (US)            

Funked wrote:

<<1. Trim elevator all the way up. If the plane climbs use down elevator to hold it.>>

I never thought to try it ... my logic being, if the elevator is gone, there is nothing to trim. Does that make sense? Of course, I'm still new at this, so my logic may not be valid Anyway ... so you can still do the "i" and "k" keys with no elevator?

Flyp

157th TFG Swamp Foxes

funked posted 02-16-99 11:34 AM ET (US)            

flyp: I don't know if it makes sense or not. I know for sure that WB simulates partial damage to control surfaces, i.e. they are full of holes or partially blown off. That's why you still have some control.

Now it seems to me the trim tab and it's control linkage would be screwed up if the whole panel was perforated. But on modern planes some of the trim is done by actuators that change the geometry of the control linkages inside the wing or stabilizer, and some of it is even done completely electronically just like our WB planes. I don't know how much of this applied to WW2 planes, certainly not the electronic part. So it probably doesn't make any sense. But it works!

Yes use the trim keys. If you are trying to fly fast you might use down trim but once you slow down trim it all the way up and compensate with the stick if you need to descend.

ccasey posted 02-16-99 11:41 AM ET (US)            

Well the stps everyone else posted work really good. Actually you can land anything as long as you have one engine and rudder. I remember one time I was landing a P40 thay was beat up, no elevator, one aileron, all gunes disabled. Abuot a 1/2 mile from landing the 109 that wanted to shoot me down did one lass pass before he got scared off by my wingman. I lost all controlls execpt for rudder and my engine. I also lost my landing gear. All I did was watch my attidue indicator and make sure it was just as centered as it is on the runway. Then I used throttle to keep level and any course correction was done with rudder. Since I had no gear I had to trim the nose all the way up and cut throttle right when I was over the runway. My landing was very hard (600fpm) but it worked, and since it was on the runway it didnt cound as a ditch. So remember: watch attitude indicator, keep level, manage altitude with throttle and do not use flaps or they will push the nose down and cause you to crash and burn...

Vicious posted 02-16-99 01:13 PM ET (US)            

TRIM, that's the magic ingredient, you can practically continue to fight using just the trim alone. I've lost my 'vator' and continued to BnZ the hapless masses below for a couple passes. I'm sure this 'trick' is absolutely arcadish, but hey, in the WB Universe it's a free ticket home.

Vicious -vics-

Hell's Aces <+J

"Jugmeister"