ccasey posted 02-13-99 06:44 PM ET (US)        

I was think today about the P40. I notcied that very few people fly it in the MA, yet, some of my best ever sorties were in it. I found that it is capable of taking quite a bit of damage. Also, its turn is somewheres between the 109 and the Spit. Its has little torque, very little compression, and its seems like its' 2 50s and 4 303's (B), or its 6 50's (E, seem to do a lot more damage than the 50's on the P51 or 47.

In dives it handles great, i nrmally do not even notcies compression till at 425mph, the plane rolls great from 200-375mph, and it stops rolling almost instantly when you release the stick. Its is easy to do wingovers in, its rudder controll its great.

The 6 view is almost as good as the zekes.

The guns are fast and very accurate.

The only probelem i notcies is that the engine is easy to get damaged (like in the 51).

Ok, so with all of these ADVANTAGES why don't I see more people fly them. Heck the E version can still be effective all the way up to 262 day... well first from now on, if a FNG ask me of a good plane to fly, I am going to stop saying "Spit, 109, Zeke, 190, 38" and say P40. A little rant: Now we all see everyone complain about "too many spits", well, a lot of these spit pilot are new, and the learned that plane first, because someone recommended it to them. So if you want less Spit drivers, just dont recommend it as much. Ok back on track... Ok, so is there any good reason NOT to fly the P40. I my experiance, every TOD in which I flew the P40 has been great, this TOD which I havnt touched the plane once, has only had one kill. (The plane?). If I am somehow wrong feel free to flame me... of just hunt me down in the MA.

Strykr posted 02-13-99 07:12 PM ET (US)            

Wait! I thought the P40 was the secret uberplane of WB. Been flying it right along with fantastic results. Thought after Blitzkrieg, where thr P40 really shone, more would fly it in main. Guess it's our little secret. :-)

Strykr out

Konrad posted 02-13-99 07:15 PM ET (US)            

P40 is a great plane before the 109F comes out. I don't fly it because I know I dont stand a chance against any competent 109 drivers and if anyone from my JG would see me I would suffer greatly at their hands holding the stick to their uber-109s .

I guess other people don't fly it becuase they don't think its any good or they just want cannons like they get in a spit.

Konrad

Jg77

Wells posted 02-13-99 07:33 PM ET (US)            

One of my absolute most satisfying sorties was in a P-40E. I was flying CAP and these Spitfire's kept coming over in sweeps. They must look at P-40's and say 'ah, no threat...' or something, cause they seemed to just ignore me as I picked em off 1 by 1. I ended up with 6 Spitfire kills on that sortie and landed. It is slow though and doesn't climb as well. I prefer the P-39 over the P-40. It's a bit faster, climbs better and turns pretty much the same as the P-40E. I still haven't got the hang of that 37mm though...probably never will! hehe

ik Jagdgeschwader 77 posted 02-13-99 08:49 PM ET (US)            

Well ccasey, after 1940 the P-40 is an easy plane to beat if your enemy knows what he is doing. Unless they're accustomed to flying Sbd's, most pilots who try it will find it to be inferior and go back to their normal ride. I do like the P-40 though, and I fly it from time to time. The P40b which can maneuver with Spits, just doesn't have good firepower, and the P40e which does have good firepower, is easily beat by the Spit (unless your name is deft). So it's kind of a catch 22. And you're really in trouble if you run into a Hurri II.

Tschüß

ik

Dixie posted 02-13-99 08:55 PM ET (US)            

Nobody here. I fly the P40 quite a bit, mainly 'cause it has such a nice disposition as turnfighters go. I have two 5-kill streaks to my credit in WB, and the only one in which I successfully RTB'ed was in a P40E. Kittyhawk power forever!

Dix

Deft XO Red Falcons VVS posted 02-14-99 02:36 AM ET (US)         

The p40 stinks, it is probably the worst plane in warbirds. This plane should be avoided at all costs. You should never even consider flying it.

I hate the p40, all p40 pilots are dweebs.

deft

Dixie posted 02-14-99 10:46 AM ET (US)            

Oh, wait, Deft's right. God, how could I think such a thing? You P40 pilots are sick, sick, sick people! Get help!

hehe

Dix

ccasey posted 02-14-99 11:47 AM ET (US)            

As for ik's comment about if the enemy knows what he is doing, well, it is possible to beat ANY a/c if the person knows what they are doing. And well IMO the hurri2 hurts just about any aircraft it can get on the 6 of... and it hurts fast... Unless they used to flying SBD's ik? Wow, so thats what you really think of the 109... lol :-)

See, I am used to the 109, Spit, Zeke, F4U, 262, and of course the P-40... Ok now to be serious...

I can see the point about some people think the the P40 being inferior. However since I never seem to live long enough to get high and fast like most a/c need, I tend to aim at a/c that can be flown well under lots of conditions. And see the P40 works for TnB in late war when everyone seem to fly the less manuverable rides (I prefer the P40b myself), and BnZ in early war against slower but more agile rides. However the biggest mistake I see is when people see the P-40 and say "oh wow, P40 in late RPS? A tuurkey shoot", and by doing so under estimate the target. And guess who goes down in flames? (well they do, but sometimes I do, if the person was better then I assumed)

Deft XO Red Falcons VVS posted 02-14-99 07:51 PM ET (US)            

The best asset of the p40e is that people assume its a dog. And it is.

It turns terribly (horizontaly)

It accelerates terribly (nothing like being outrun by troops when your taking off)

It likes fuel and drinks alot of it. (never tried fp oil in it but look forward to it at the next con )

It's roll rate and elevator response (trim assisted) is excellent all at all speed ranges. The p40 is probably the single easiest plane to break out of compression lock in.

It maintains its energy well after building up a head of steam. I like to approach a furball 5k above, dive to 3k below the highest con (450-475 ias). Most of my kills come while I am nose up.

It's a stable gun platform, and it's a pig that can absorb alot of punishment.

The trick is to keep your e up through a rapid progression of maneuvers.

I don't know what the other 40 pilot's main tactic is, but 9 times out of ten i'll bate with my 6 let them overshoot and hold my fire until they think they arent threatened. (let em jink from 2-5 range while they extend) Rather then burn my E by trying to acquire a jinking target, I just wait for him to level. A p40 can keep up with a rolling FW for a LONG time in a dive and high speed shallow run if you wait for him to level before acquiring him.

If it's a spit they all break into a climb. Since it's predictable (it's the correct thing to do in a superior climbing plane right?) It makes them vulnerable.

IK was right about the hurri II, mortal enemy of the p40. Aside from the hurri II there is only one other aircraft type I fear on sight in a coalt situation. The f4f.

deft

Dnil posted 02-14-99 08:05 PM ET (US)            

shhhhh!

The f4f is a piece, only dweebs fly it. The worst plane in WB, highly over modeled. Please do not fly the f4f.

Dnil

Maj. 900th Bloody Jaguars

Dixie posted 02-14-99 08:20 PM ET (US)            

Nice to hear that someone uses the traits of the P40 correctly in his dogfighting I, OTOH, use the P40 largely in a dual role. First, I climb to a really nice altitude. Then, I begin circling a possible target. Cut the eng, dive, and let 'er rip with those .50 cals. When I (hopefully) have taken out target number one, I begin to utilize the low-alt abilities of the P40. Personally, I don't find that it turns badly, so I can keep pace with Spits and F6F's pretty well.

From a hi-alt start, the P40 can become a good E fighter. Lower down, it turns pretty well, but since it gets low and slow a little TOO easily, you hafta have air superiority when you engage (more of your color than their color)

Dix

wapner posted 02-15-99 12:16 PM ET (US)            

Dunno guys...

I don't really see the slowicane as a big threat to the 40...just dive away if you need to. Ditto the f4f...

The great enemy to me is the ki-84. The only thing you can do is try to dive away, but if hes smart he'll just follow you high and ease down...he can catch you easily over the long haul.

Regards,

Konrad posted 02-15-99 01:13 PM ET (US)            

Deft wrote: "If it's a spit they all break into a climb. Since it's predictable (it's the correct thing to do in a superior climbing plane right?) It makes them vulnerable"

How does it make them vulnerable? I did a h2h with a relatively new guy to wb, he was in a 109F I was in a Spit5, and I couldn't touch him. Why? Becuase he would just climb out easily whenever I got on his tail.

Konrad

Jg77

Kevdog posted 02-15-99 02:05 PM ET (US)            

Konrad:

I think Deft is referring to how he dives to gain speed, then levels out below the con and climbs up on their 6. They think the p40 can't follow them up, so start climbing, but since he's just dove for speed, he follows them up when they're slow and fat and shreds them with the 50s.

If the P40 didn't have smash (extra E) in speed, then no, it wouldn't work

GunsGG posted 02-15-99 08:34 PM ET (US)            

My favorite tactic is just to loiter over a furball untill I see an nme with no wingman...not a hard search. I usually start 3-5k above them, flying level until they disapear under my nose, then roll inverted until they are directly under me. I cut the throttle to zero, point the nose straight down and use "old exterminators" roll rate to wind up on the poor guys tail at about d1 to d3, then i hold the trigger down till I'm sure he's dead. Then WEP in a safe direction and claw back for altitude.

Deft XO Red Falcons VVS posted 02-16-99 03:50 AM ET (US)             no wingman...not a hard search. I usually start 3-5k above them, flying level until they disapear under my nose, then roll inverted until they are directly under me. I cut the throttle to zero

I NEVER cut the throttle for any reason other then letting a wingman form on me.

I don't really see the slowicane as a big threat to the 40...just dive away if you need to. Ditto the f4f...

The hurricane can catch a p40 in a dive. The f4f can dive with a p40 for a good while, and it also accelerates quicker.

The great enemy to me is the ki-84. The only thing you can do is try to dive away, but if hes smart he'll just follow you high and ease down...he can catch you easily over the long haul.

Just out turn him. ki-84's have a horrible wingover stall. A move the 40 excells in. Coupled with a 40's superior roll rate, a ki-84 shouldn't be able to lock up on your six for very long before you can shake him.

How does it make them vulnerable? I did a h2h with a relatively new guy to wb, he was in a 109F I was in a Spit5, and I couldn't touch him. Why? Becuase he would just climb out easily whenever I got on his tail.

Take a spit diving on a p40e's six about 50 mph faster then the 40. The p40 should dive at whatever angle necessary to achieve 300-325 IAS and time it so that he reaches that speed when the spit is d6 behind him. Fake a split S, roll back over and pull up. If the spit is at 350 ias, and the p40 is at 300-325 ias it can easily turn inside of the spit in a vertical loop even if the spit starts the climb before he overshoots.

Even if he went straight vertical, the p40 pilot has ample time within range to hammer the spit by following him.

deft

zooom posted 02-22-99 01:40 PM ET (US)        

One of my friends says this is his favorite plane. I always had the impression it is a dog in WB. On his advice I am going to try flying it more. Any advice to a dweeb like me.

fd ski posted 02-22-99 02:13 PM ET (US)            

Pjmy, i think that's streaching it P40's were charged with bombing mission, therefore you can't use the results to compare 40vs 109 and 190 as a pure fighters

Bartlomiej Rajewski

S/L fd-ski Sq. 303 (Polish) "Kosciuszko" RAF

Pjmy posted 02-22-99 02:47 PM ET (US)            

Obviously, the P-40E is a mid-war plane (actually a late-early war plane)...but as we say but tend to forget, it is the pilot, not the plane, that often matters most.

Pjmy

401 RCAF Rams

CM Staff

scrump posted 02-22-99 07:50 PM ET (US)            

Let's put it this way .. with a full fuel tank and humping a 500 lb. bomb ; the P-40 is so slow it has calander in place of the rate of climb indicator. And is so slow .. it's been known to take bird strikes from the rear :-)

Cheers,

Scrump

416 RCAF "The Lynx"

Stiglr posted 02-22-99 07:56 PM ET (US)            

There was actually a time when I just *couldn't* fly the 109E (and actually, I'm only somewhat better in it now). At that time, I flew the P-40B during early RPS for a bit while I cooled my heels waiting for the 109F.

I discovered that the P40 is a commendable mount. No, it can't climb, but if you're a smart flyer you MAKE time to get some alt,and don't just take off from the nearest field under attack.

The P40 is a deadly *bastard* when diving on planes; nothing in its time period gets away from it when it's got smash. It can turn till the cows come home, it's tough and its got lots of spray and pray ammo for those so inclined (me, I prefer a nice d2 or closer solution).

Haven't flown it much lately but with my little flirtations with the Hawk I was very impressed.

And I sure as hell won't forget any time soon the effect these birds had on Blitzkrieg.

BB Gun posted 02-22-99 08:15 PM ET (US)            

The problem I always have with the 40 is it's VERY heavy elevator, and I fly the 51D a lot, an ac not realy known for its light elevator.

When I fly the 40, I am ALWAYS banging on my trim keys to assist the poor elevator response. It fools me into thinking its locked up when really it just

Needs.....More..... PULL!!!!

Once I get over the inclination to under control the elevator, and as long as I gain alt, and dive away if and when I lose the advantage, it is a pretty effective plane for me.

ccasey posted 02-22-99 10:29 PM ET (US)            

The P-40 is a great plane. So far most people are talking about its disadvantages and very few advantages. Well the TOD's I do the best in are the ones in which I fly the P40...

Its turns with spits, it rolls with 109's, it has reasonable to good guns depending on the which version. It is a very easy plane to fly with very accurate guns. It dive great. Compression is almost not noticeable. It has lots of ammo. Good visability. It can take a bunch of damage and still make it back, and it is the easiest plane to ditch. No in my opinion if you are a good enough pilot to take advantage of those things, those advantages out weigh ANY of its disadvantages. If you are a smart pilot, then it is deadly... if you oftem fly zekes and take off from a vulched field then... well... good luck...