Posted by: SC-PilotLight (swoosh)

Message: Ahoy mateys!

Way back when, I picked up my first flight sim. (SU-27 Flanker) I learned practically everything I know about ACM flying that bird online. I learned alot from some of the best in the game--Stinger, Taurion, Pale Rider, Archer to name a few. After a good year I became one of the old hats, and it was my turn to pass along knowledge right along with my teachers. Boy, those were the good ol' days for me. I was one of the best when it came to the turn fight. There were two types of turn fights--Nose to Tail and Nose to Nose. In either situation I knew what to do. In a N2T fight, I would fly at "corner speed" or about 730 kph. This increased my turn radius but I scooted around the circle pretty darn fast. Usually I got around on my opponent. In a N2N fight, I'd shoot for about 650, the speed that gave a small radius and I'd snapshoot 'em to death or cut inside him, reverse, and switch to corner speed. Either way I usually won. Yes, those were the days, and I was mightily pleased with myself. But, I am not 'toopid, so I always understood there was alot I didn't know.

And it is WarBirds that is showing me that more than ever. In a turning fight here, I almost always lose. Clearly there is something I don't understand, but what? When I first tried turning fights I used the same tactics as in Flanker. In a N2N situation, I'd go for the faster velocity corner speed. In a N2N I'd go for the slower but smaller radius speed. Either way I end up on the silk.

I figured that all this talk I hear of "riding the stall horn" wasnt just idle rumor, so I tried that. My kill ratio in a stall horn contest marginally improved, but I credit that to luck not knowledge or comprehension! Unless my plane is a superior turner--and I mean by a wide margin--I will still lose that pesky sweaty turning fight. Then if we switch planes, to run a sort of comparative test, I still lose the turning fight! I am convinced that I'm goofing up somewhere. But where?

What am I missing? Shouldn't the same basic tactics work as in Flanker?

Well, mateys, your advice and tips will be carefully read. WarBirds has made a newbie out of me and I don't like it!

-stay aerodynamic
SC-PilotLight

Posted by: Bino (II./JG54)

Message: Maybe it's 1.) there are more "dissimilar aircraft" matchups in WB than in SU27 or 2.) the flight model is more realistic here in WB, so formula-based tactics don't work or 3.) these planes have a *lot* less thrust than a Flanker. ;-)

Personally, I find that going Nose-to-Tail works best if I have a turn performance advantage. Said advantage can either be transitory, due to comparative aircraft speeds, or constant, due to relative aircraft performance. If I suspect the badguy's going to get around the circle faster and/or tighter than me, Nose-to-Nose will at least allow me the odd snapshot, and possibly the ability to disengage.

If you check out Toad's "Tales From The Wingless Archives", over at http://www2.nconline.com/kirschd/wingless.htm, you'll find a little ditty I threw together called "Bino Bags Both Bogies" in the March 1998 archive file. In addition to being a ripping yarn, telling of single-handed combat against the Green Horde, it contains a pretty detailed description of my own use of Nose-to-Nose and Nose-to-Tail whilst flying an A6M3 against a Ki-84 and an F6F.

cya!

bino--

Posted by: Topcat (RAF, Duxford Wing)

Message: This is how I moved from awful to average - hope it helps!

Topcat's Tips!

Choose one aircraft and stick to it. Loads of people will try to tell you which one is 'best', but only you can really make the choice. My best advice for this is to choose an aircraft which you like (eg because your boyhood hero flew it), then when the going gets bad - and it will - you will still get a thrill out of flying the plane.

Conserve energy at all times, even in a turn fight. If you are closing fast on an anemy that turns, don't try to turn with him. Instead, gently pull up, gain a bit of altitude (speed bleeds off), roll inverted and gently pull back down again towards the enemy (a bit like a rollercoaster in a fairground ride). That way you can both maintain speed and keep on the 6 of your enemy. (If you pull too hard doing this you loose speed). Have patience - even though it looks like the enemy is escaping, by retaining your excess energy you will quickly catch him up again. (this link shows a similar move http://cust.iamerica.net/dstar1/YoYoFrames.htm )

It also helps *alot* to get very familiar with the views. Keep your enemy in sight at all times. Learn to fly the plane from any one of the views, so that you don't need to loose sight of the target.

Don't get target fixed! If you see tracers coming over your head, think *very* seriously about how bad you want the kill! To escape an enemy on your 6 *do not* pull up. You *will* die! Don't turn in circles. This is predictable, and easy to beat. Look for 'guns defence' lectures on the training page.

Never enter a combat zone below 10k (12 k is better, as many a/c use the 10k mark, so it can get quite crowded!). Take the time to gain altitude before entering a combat area. If you're too high, you can easily come down. If you're too low......

Concentrate! Always look behind you, and weave from side to side to check behind (even when taking off from a friendly rear field) as death comes quickly if you fall asleep! This requires discipline, but pays off as your deaths in level flight vanish.

Don't rely on the 'up back' view. It might seem to provide a good unrestricted view behind, but it leaves a *huge* blind spot. Use the 'back' view and weave to uncover the blind spot.

Learn how to sidestep a b&z attack - check the training pages on this.

Read all there is on the training pages. Most of it won't make sense. Print it out, and re-read it every few months. That way, you can use your growing arena experience to give you pointers in understanding the training!

One more tip - shoot at d2 or less

d2! remember that! d2 or less! do not be tempted to long shots!

Just my 2 pence worth :o)

Posted by: Jinx

Message: Well, I might be stating the ridiculously obvious here, but a WW2 prop fighter don't have the power a modern jet. You only have a finite amount of energy to play with and the engine is only marginally helping the situation. What this means in terms of turn fighting is that there is no way you can stay at corner speed for very long without pointing the nose down a lot. Generally there is not much point in flying the numbers (like corner speed and G-numbers), its better to try and maximize the energy advantage and trade that for angles to get the shot, using lead and lag pursuit instead of fast and slow. Ending up in a horizontal circle fight (usually on the deck since flat turns at altitude is usually not the best idea) means I made a bad move earlier in the fight.

I would try and work with energy moves in the vertical more and use oblique turns, like sugested before.

Welcome to Warbirds!

-Jinx

Posted by: Juice-

Message: bmbm statment about yo-yo is a good one. If I may add that to roll slightly during the up and down to avoid negative g's will hold more energy (if you can stand calling it that in stall fights). Also the "real close" part is good, and that means 0 or 1, then all the gunnery stuff goes poof and you just fly and fire, but as I always say "fly first" or you will hit the deck trying for a guns solution. Lastly try over trimming (again mentioned by bmbm) to gain a temporal snap shot that you seem to be able to do. And really lastly practice your gunnery offline in awkward positions like inverted, 90º, in near full stall and even attempt to spin near a drone and see if you can hit it during a revolution, under, over, fast, hi-g, negative-g, etc. This all because if you hit a rudder or a rudder and it comes off you are now extremly manuaverable in contrast.

No not an expert but it's a lot of fun learning

Juice-s .02

Posted by: -bmbm- CO RSAF

Message: If you're trimmed for level flight at lets say 300 KIAS and start turning and burning, you will soon find ourself at a disadvantage. Trim elevator DOWN in a power dive and trim elevator UP - a LOT - when you bleed airspeed. Also, avoid horizontal turns: keep enough E to let you do vertical or oblique turns for as long as possible. Go for yo-yo's to get out of the horizontal and don't try to make "clean" maneuvers - thus you're becoming predictable.

Trim is arguably the most important feature - don't mess with autotrim, learn to manually check trim continuously instead.

Other than that, make sure you're pulling proper lead in the low and slow dance, and get REAL close.

Hope this helps.

Bombom Nattinatti, out