Gilbert O'Sullivan Radio Interviews

ALAN: It’s Special Guest time here on BigglesFM, and because I'm in the home of my special guest, it makes me a guest which makes it kind of 'Back To Front' so I’m going to let 'Himself' do the intro – he’s very good at them.

Song Plays: 'I Hope You’ll Stay'

ALAN: From the 1972 album 'Back To Front' - 'I Hope You’ll Stay', and maybe if I'm good I'll be able to stay because I'm in the Jersey home of my Special Guest Gilbert O'Sullivan.

GILBERT: Yeah good morning Alan, or should I say good afternoon, or good evening Alan?

ALAN: Ha Ha. Well I think that covers every time zone. How are you?

GILBERT: Very well thanks.

ALAN: That Album 'Back To Front' has some great tracks on it.

'That’s Love'

'Out Of The Question'

'Can I Go With You' – one of my favourites, and

'Who Was It?' – released as a single by Hurricane Smith - how did that one come about?

GILBERT: I've always written for myself so I've never written for other people or with other people in mind and I think Hurricane was popular at the time with 'Oh Babe What Would You Say', he had a big hit with that and they were looking for other songs. I think he just heard it in my publisher's office, liked it and recorded it, simple as that.

Song Plays: 'Who Was It' by Hurricane Smith

ALAN: Hurricane Smith and 'Who Was It?'. What do you think of that version?

GILBERT: I think any cover version's a compliment to the writer so I think it's wrong to criticise a cover version or to say 'I don’t like it'. I think the fact that anybody has cared and taken the trouble to record your song, is a compliment.

ALAN: Another track from that album was of course your first no 1 hit – 'Clair' – the story of a babysitter - You

GILBERT: Yeah. I think it's well known that my manager Gordon Mills had a young daughter, well he had four children, and I used to spend a lot of time at the house. I lived down the road from him on the estate, didn’t drive, I used to walk up there occasionally and his wife would cook lunch for me. Sometimes they'd be going off to some fancy do and they would ask me to babysit. No problem. And Clair was always the one getting up in the middle of the night and stuff. I love kids anyway 'cause I come from a large family. So the song was written about her for the parents and she does the laugh on the end and Gordon plays the harmonica solo and I think you can hear his wife cooking in the background on a few of the crackles. So it was a nice thing for me to do for them.

Song Plays: 'Clair'

ALAN: Clair, by my special guest today Gilbert O’Sullivan. That I suppose is the favourite song with your English fans.

GILBERT: Yeah I think it's the most popular in the UK. It’s kind of interesting how each country varies, for example in Holland it's 'Nothing Rhymed', in Germany it's 'Get Down', in Spain it's 'What’s in a Kiss'. So, yes in the UK the most popular O'Sullivan song I think is 'Clair'.

ALAN: I remember seeing you on Top Of The Pops in 1970 . As I recall you were walking on and sat down at the piano to play 'Nothing Rhymed' looking completely different from other pop stars of the day. Was that your idea to dress that way?

GILBERT: Yeah, the idea was that I just had this thing about Chaplin, Buster Keaton and people like that. I'd always gone to see the silent films at The Academy. I used to hire a Chaplin jacket from Berman’s, the costumiers in London, I just wanted to look different. Everybody was telling me in those days they liked my songs. I was 19 years of age. Everybody said If you look like somebody like James Taylor, just normal, 'cause image is out, it's a bad word, you'll be more successful. I didn't like that, I reacted against that. I wanted to do something that nobody else had done. So the idea of looking the way I looked was in a way a contrast to the kind of songs I write. In other words I could write a serious song like 'Nothing Rhymed' but I could look very different to that visually and I liked the contradiction in that. So, because everyone was against that, I was more determined than ever to use it and on reflection when I look back on that image now I’m much happier to see the cap and boots than I would be if I was looking at platform boots and platform shoes and makeup and bell-bottoms or something. I mean the image of the early 70s is ridiculed a lot but I'm actually very proud of the image of the cap and boots and the Chaplin jacket. I mean I really think it was so different and unusual and I’m really glad I did it.

ALAN: Of course Top of the Pops has run its course now and sadly finished. Did you watch the last one?

GILBERT: I taped it so I'll grab bits of it 'cause I think, historically, it's kind of interesting. It was so important to all of us when we're successful. I remember Gordon Mills' wife coming into the room saying that your record has gone in at 29 and you'll be on Top of the Pops next week. Of course for everybody that was a big thrill. 14/15 million people used to watch it. It was the only music programme that mattered, arguably the only music programme on TV. I think the reason for its demise is quite clear, there's so much music television available these days.

ALAN: And before 'Nothing Rhymed' hit the charts in 1970 what were you doing? How did you get your big break?

GILBERT : I was knocking on people's doors dressed like Charlie Chaplin and Buster Keaton. I spent three years from '67 to 1970 basically serving an apprenticeship going in and out of record companies, all of them liking my music, all of them wanting to be involved with me, all of them knowing I would be successful but all of them trying to get me to change the way I looked. So it was like an apprenticeship, you learn from it, you get into bad deals. The record companies, maybe the producers, are not the right ones for you and I was writing, continuing to write better so by the time Gordon Mills came along it fitted into place if you like and the apprenticeship was served. From then on things took off.

ALAN: And at that point had you already written 'Nothing Rhymed'?

GILBERT: No, basically the best song I’d written between '67 and '69 was 'I Wish I Could Cry' which was written about the death of Bobby Kennedy because as a teenager we all felt the death of Bobby Kennedy, a bit young to feel the death of John Kennedy, Robert Kennedy you felt was somebody who you felt represented the youth of that day and that affected me a great deal. So that was a very important song to me and that was kind of destroyed by the record company I was with. So that was frustrating and demoralising. When Gordon came along I hadn't written 'Nothing Rhymed', but before we were starting to record in various recording sessions and eventually the song that came out of one particular session was 'Nothing Rhymed'. So that became the first success.

ALAN: Ok here's some quick answer questions: Under strung or over strung?

GILBERT: Under strung. No actually straight strung is the word I would use because most of my cheap pianos in the early days were straight strung.

ALAN: Wooden or iron frame?

GILBERT: I guess it has to be iron frame.

ALAN: Do you still have your first piano?

GILBERT: I have two of them, one in the garden shed – which is the garden shed that I first started writing in in the early '60s in my mother’s back garden.

ALAN:You’ve moved it here?

GILBERT: Yeah yeah it's out by the studio and it has a piano in it but of course I don't go in there and write anymore. It's amazing to think that I used to go in there every evening after college and every weekend and people would be out in their gardens, 'cause we lived in a housing estate in a small terraced house, can you imagine the neighbours what they would be saying, this idiot plonking away on this piano, so I really owe a lot to them that they put up with it. But yes, I have two of the pianos, because I used to buy pianos for about £10 down Wandsworth Bridge Road in London and they'd only last about four or five months before they'd break. All straight strung not over strung pianos. I had about eight or nine by the late '70s but I only have three of them to this day.

ALAN: What's the shortest time you've taken to write a hit from start to finish?

GILBERT: I don’t like the term 'writing a hit'. The term is 'write what you think is a good song'. It takes as long as it takes, basically there’s no time limit and I hear people say that they've written something in five minutes. It can be quick but it varies. It takes as long as it takes. Lyrics for me are like going to school, you start with a blank notebook and away you go. You might have a title but it could take a day, it could take a week, it could take three weeks. Music is a very kind of quick thing, an inspirational thing. So therefore that can happen very quickly, you develop the melody, then you hit the lyric. So the answer really is, how long is a piece of string?

ALAN: Have you ever phoned a radio station for a request?

GILBERT: Erm, let me think. Erm, (pause) NO. (Laughter).

ALAN: Have you ever been to Biggleswade or Bedfordshire?

GILBERT: I’m sure I've gone through Bedfordshire and if we’re ever in your neck of the woods when we’re touring we’ll have to meet up or you'll have to come to the show or join us for a drink.

ALAN: And finally, 'What’s In A Kiss?'

GILBERT: Erm, I don't know, I just write the song. I don't know. [Laughing] Don’t ask me, you'll embarrass me.

Play Song: 'What’s In A Kiss?'

ALAN : From 1980, 'What’s In A Kiss?' by my special guest Gilbert O’ Sullivan, a songwriter's place is obviously in the home, when you’re not writing songs what sort of odd jobs do you do around the house? Do you clean the windows or put shelves up? Give us a clue.

GILBERT: No problem. I mean I am domesticated. I’m meticulous about the rugs being straight in the hall. I hate the frayed edges, I always have to keep turning the rugs over. If I go away and I come back and the rugs are crooked it’s the first thing I do when I come into the house, put the suitcase down and straighten the rugs. It drives my wife crazy. I like to keep things clean. I can clean windows because I did window cleaning when I was a student. So I’m kinda used to that, not the outside we have someone in to do that, but inside. I sweep up, I’m a good sweeper, I find sweeping therapeutic. I'm a good washer-upper. I don't like dishwashers, I always wash the dishes in the sink. I'm so used to doing that from when I grew up despite there being a dishwasher there. So I am a domestic animal. I go for walks with the dog. I'll pick a few weeds out of the path here and there. I like things like that 'cause it takes my mind off what I'm doing from 9 to 5 which is actively 101% involved in either writing music or recording music or preparing and releasing music.

ALAN: Well that was my next question, do you have a disciplined 'working day' ? Is it really literally 9 to 5?

GILBERT: It's so important as you get older, I'm 59 years of age now, so if I didn't have the discipline the likelihood is I'd wake up on a really nice day and think who needs this. If you don't have to do something there’s a tendency in you, particularly as you get older, to just sit back and smell the roses more. But I find that I love music so much and I enjoy the creative process so much. I love making albums, I have no control over how successful they are going to be but that's not really my job. My job is to write the song, be happy with the song, record the song, be happy with the record, give it to the record company that will release it and say to them 'look it's out of my control, if somebody likes it, if the public like it it can be a success, if not I'll do another one'. So as long as I have that kind of attitude and enthusiasm then there’s no reason for me to stop. Then of course you have the touring aspect for three or four months of the year, which is good fun too.

ALAN: Do you have a collection of all of your albums just for historical value?

GILBERT: Of course I have box sets from Japan, we had a three CD box set that was went out in America just two years ago. the cover designed by a friend of mine from art school he did the cover, every record I've ever made I have copies of, whether it was the very first single. I even have a crunched up bit of plastic from the factory at EMI where they made one of the singles and they gave it to me. So I keep all that stuff. I don’t look at it or anything like that. I keep it all, it's there for reference, the old product, so it's all stockpiled somewhere.

ALAN: And the clothes. Do you have any of the clothes from the old days?

GILBERT: Yes I have the Chaplin jacket. I used to hire it from Berman's. Normally they'd say to you 'what’s the production you want to hire the Chaplin jacket for' and I'd say 'I'm not in a production, I just want to wear it to look in the mirror because I'm creating this image'. Eventually Berman's who were really nice, saw this kid coming in every couple of months hiring this jacket, not for a production but just for himself, so eventually they said to me 'you can have it'. So I have that, it's very special to me. So I have all that locked away plus caps and G sweaters, and all that stuff.

ALAN: Let’s play a track for you. Have you got a favourite you’d like me to play?

GILBERT: Well you like a track from 'Back to Front', 'Can I Go With You'. At the time that was one of the tracks that was my favourite, in fact I think a few tours ago in the last few years about four or five years ago, we did that on stage, myself and one of the girl singers as a duet. Because I always thought 'Can I Go With You' as a Beatle-esque kind of duet song. So it has a good memory for me, so you could play that.

ALAN: OK, let's play that one

Play Song: 'Can I Go With You'

ALAN: That's from the album 'Back to Front', 'Can I Go With You' one of my favourite tracks. We're at the home of Gilbert O’Sullivan today in Jersey.

Gilbert, you've got a website of course. It's run by Brian, I suppose we should really say 'hello' to Brian shouldn't we?

GILBERT: Yes, hello Brian, who runs the site and scares the daylights out of me. But it's an official site, there are unofficial sites and we thought a few years ago that we'd better do an official one. Brian runs the official site, gives information which is given from me to my brother to Brian. So he does a really good job, it's important particularly as there are those fans out there who require and request information, want to know when an album is coming out, want to know particular songs, facts about something, so Brian is there to help them with that.

ALAN: Yeah, it’s www.gilbertosullivan .com or .net will also work I’ve found. I notice there's quite a few tracks appearing now and you can buy all these on the website especially B sides. Is that something that you like to get out again now, B sides?

GILBERT: That's the Japanese. The Japanese were the first to release a boxed set and they've released various compilation albums as well as the new albums, they’ll be the first to release the latest new album in October. Last year they put out the B sides collection, they're kinda very into that. They’ve put out a love song collection, a rare tracks collection. So the last one to be released was the B sides. But they wanted all the lyrics because the Japanese like to have all the lyrics printed not only in English but in Japanese. That's how a lot of Japanese young people learn English. As you know with B sides they were unlikely to be on albums that reproduce lyrics. So I found for example on three or four of the tracks I didn't have a clue what the guy was singing about, I didn’t have a clue what he was saying, he being me, so I was trying to play some of these 45s at slow speed and hear what the hell it was I had written and what I was talking about. It took a month of Sundays to get all these lyrics right but we did it in the end. I don't listen to my old records particularly B sides so it was a strange experience to be playing a B side that contained lyrics that I didn’t have a clue what it was. But it worked out well in the end and it's a really nice album and it's kinda nice to have that on the shelf.

ALAN: Talking of B sides, there’s one that’s in my head that I remember putting on a cassette in the old days. I used to put all my singles on cassette so I could play them in the car. Now that you’ve turned me over make way for a little surprise, because I'm not really a B side. I'm a C with two capital Ys. What does that mean?

GILBERT: Well that was in the days when I just wanted to be different. It was a bit like having the introduction on himself and saying 'ladies and gentlemen allow me to introduce…' no one had done that kind of thing. It was my mentality trying to do something a little different. And then we did it on 'Back to Front' intoducing 'Back To Front', we did it on 'Southpaw' with the Mike Sammes Singers. And the thing with the B sides was it was getting to a point with me where I didn't like the idea of B sides being taken from albums. I always felt that it should be a new song and what happened in this instance was that the record company said there’s no time to record a new song, therefore we had to take a B side from an album so I said, in that case let me come up with something to kinda make it slightly different, to give people a little extra something. So therefore it was the bit about now that you’ve turned me over. That's actually on the B sides collection too.

ALAN: I think I'm going to have to get that one, aren’t I?

GILBERT: It can be arranged, I'm sure.

Song Plays: 'If I Don’t Get You ( Back Again)'

ALAN: That is a really good song

GILBERT: 'If I Don’t Get You (Back Again)', it’s a lovely song. In fact we do that currently on tour. See that's the nice thing about having, to digress a little, an interesting back catalogue. When you go on tour if all you’re doing is 'Ooh-Wakka-Doo-Wakka-Day' you’ve got a serious problem. But there are a lot of my songs which have a bit of depth to them, or at least I think they do and when you’re in front of 2,000 people or 800 or 1,000 people, if you have a song that's more than just light weight it penetrates and you get that one to one thing with an audience. It's really nice and we've started doing in the last year 'If I Don’t Get You ( Back Again)' just on keyboard with another keyboard, so there's no orchestra there and it really is a simple song. It comes over really well 'cause it's quite strong. The actual recorded version on the first album was done very quickly, it was rushed through because it was just seen as an album track. In those days you recorded three tracks in three hours or sometimes you would do two tracks in three hours, you'd have an A side and a B side. You'd spend two hours of the three hours on the A side and you’d have one hour to do the B side – that's how we worked in those days. Today you’d spend three months doing the drum sound. So I always felt the recording was a bit haphazard but that was the point I made earlier about it being used as a B side and I wasn’t too happy about that. So that’s why we put on the little fresh intro.

ALAN: You've got a new record label called ByGum.

GILBERT: It's not a new record label. What basically Bygum is there in the UK to, because our company called Grand Upright Music which is G-U-M and Grand Upright being the piano reference. And the site should be ebygum but we’re having trouble getting the rights to ebygum because somebody else has got it. Not because they’re from the north of England, ebygum, but because they're foreigners and they won’t sell it to us. Anyway ByGum Records is there to release, if for example we wanted to put out the original albums in the UK say, in Japan they've put out all the original albums out, not only in plastic cases but in the digipack, where it's like the vinyl. Japanese are really good like that. If we wanted to release them in the UK or Europe then ByGum is in a position to do that. It doesn't release new product.

ALAN: I suppose ebygum could be for downloads couldn't it, electronic.

GILBERT: Yeah, it makes sense doesn't it? It's an English thing.

ALAN: Let’s have another track. This is from your recent album 'Piano Foreplay' and 'Make My Day'.

Song Plays: 'Make My Day'

ALAN: That's a classic Gilbert O’Sullivan sound with Laurie Holloway, I believe, providing the band. Do you have a long association with Laurie?

GILBERT: Yeah I do, because Laurie was Engelbert Humperdink's arranger and Johnny Spence was Tom Jones's. So I'd worked with both, mostly with Johnny Spence, who was a great string arranger, did all the 'Alone Again' and 'Clair' stuff, brilliant arranger, very underrated. Laurie did all the arrangements for my album 'Every Song Has It’s Play' which was a very orchestral album, it was done as a theatrical thing, we had a big 40-piece orchestra. We also did a Peggy Lee duet, I've always admired Peggy Lee, one of the great female interpreters of song, if not the greatest next to Ella Fitzgerald. So we got Peggy to do a song with us as a duet and Laurie did the arrangement for that. So I'd worked with him and continue to do so. I think we're planning to do another big orchestral number and he did, with his trio, the backing for me on 'Piano Foreplay' with his bass player, 'cause we used a double bass, and his drummer. You can see Laurie with his trio on Parkinson sometimes so he's a very important person for me still.

ALAN: You've had some unusual album titles, 'Piano Foreplay', 'In the Key of G', 'The Berry Vest Of'. Are they your ideas?

GILBERT: Yeah I mean again I come up against a lot of stick. With the last Best Of collection, which EMI released, when I told them I wanted to call it the Berry Vest Of they were just kind of horrified. They said "Why can't you just do the Very Best Of like everybody does or the Greatest Hits? I said "No I want to do something a little different". So again it's that thing in my metabolism or in my head somewhere that says 'try and do something different'. Because we all know on your desk, there must be a 1000 Best Ofs so here's somebody who does this little twist on it by calling it The Berry Vest Of. But EMI were persuaded, they saw the artwork, they liked the idea, the cover worked, although the Saisbury’s and the Tesco and the Woolworths said 'we'd much rather have a picture of him on the front because the housewives who liked him in the past won't be happy with a T shirt on the front". So there's a serious logic to that, it’s rather like the argument going back to when the record company said 'You’ll sell more records if you look like the people who are buying them. If you look like you look you’re gonna lose sales'. Well I can live with that. Likewise with the picture of me on The Best Of which was a platinum record so we sold a lot of albums, it was a top 20 album. It's no question that if there was a nice picture of me on the front it would have been more sellable. And the stores like Tesco and Sainsbury's are very important with records now. Ten years ago you wouldn't buy records in a supermarket. To cut to the chase I liked it, EMI agreed with it and we went with it. I had done a few of those 'In The Key Of G' The interesting thing is on the new album I decided this time I'd got to stay away from the pun. So the new album is actually called 'A Scruff At Heart' which is pretty much what I am. When I said to my mother "Guess what the album’s gonna be? 'A Scruff At Heart'", she laughed her head off. She knows her son. So there's not a pun there but there could be, so maybe it's time I just had a nice title and got away from the puns. They are fun to do too.

ALAN: Well I think the puns are excellent. When I heard your album The Berry Vest Of, I thought well no ones done that before, have they?

GILBERT: I don't read reviews but I was told that the music business papers, Music Week, the music paper thought it was a really bad move for the reasons commercially they say this is not the way to sell x number of albums. Put a nice picture of the guy on the front. They also had a problem with Peter Gabriel who also did something similar. But EMI were very good to me, they allowed me to do the cover I wanted. I think 'The Berry Vest Of' is a fantastic cover. Beings a former art student , if you open the booklet the picture arein there. So maybe the album after this one I'll go back to the puns [Laughing].

ALAN: Well I've got loads more questions but we'll have to save them 'til the next time. It's been really nice chatting to you this morning Gilbert and I’m going to end with my favourite track so how well do you know your listener here. It’s from the album 'In The Key of G'.

GILBERT: Really?

ALAN: By the way is that really you carrying the piano on the front cover.

GILBERT: Yeah absolutely.

ALAN: It's down the Hovis street isn't it?

GILBERT: It’s the one in Shaftesbury, everyone thinks it's way up north. It's a busy town Shaftesbury about a couple of hours from London and it was used for the Hovis ad. But there's this busy street and you go through a little alleyway and there it is. So we did it at six o’clock in the morning so you get the sunshine rising up. The piano was made of balsa wood.

ALAN: Oh it's not a real one.

GILBERT: Do me a favour, how on earth could I carry a bloody upright piano under my arm? If I was carrying a guitar well you'd have thought that's normal. But to carry a piano, that’s a nice picture that. If there was going to be a biography, if I allowed a biography to be issued I see that as very representative of me. There’s something nice about it. But anyway how could I carry a real piano?

ALAN: Okay so we're In The Key of G. This is my all time favourite Gilbert O'Sullivan song.

GILBERT: Is it 'So What'?

ALAN: Ah I was going to say the next line – so what's the song I'm going to play? No it's not 'So What'.

GILBERT: It's not 'So What'? Okay hang on then let me think of the other songs.

ALAN: Incidentally, on that album there’s a song called 'Gordon Bennett'.

GILBERT: The guy Bob Hook, who designed those covers, God rest his soul, he's dead now. Bob who designed the cover of 'The Key Of G', Bob used to say that a lot. Gordon Bennett! So it kind of sticks in your mind, as a lyricist. I'm English, I'm Irish by birth but I was brought up in Swindon in England, it a bit like Ray Davies, so I'm a very English songwriter. A lot of my lyrics are not meant to appeal to Americans, it's meant to appeal to people who might understand them, so therefore I don't really write in an American kind of way, I always write very English. I feel it's very colloquial. So Gordon Bennett is a nice phrase, isn't it?

ALAN: It's not that one either. I’ve got to give you a clue. It’s been played well over a thousand times before.

GILBERT: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Of course, 'At The Very Mention Of Your Name'.

ALAN: Exactly. That’s a lovely song, I love that track.

GILBERT: Which version do you like though? Do you like the David Foster version or the one that's on the album?

ALAN: Ah I didn't know there were two. I've only got the album version.

GILBERT: David Foster, the American producer, who went on to produce Whitney Houston, I sent him that song and asked him would he like to produce it, do a version of it, 'cause I figured it might be good for me in America. David agreed. We went to his home in Malibu and we recorded it there. So that production of it is very big and I like that version. If you haven't got a copy of that I’ll get you one. It was released as a single. You know the album first came out called 'Frobisher Drive'? It was made in the late 80s and I was signed up to a German record company for the world and that album was going to be called 'Frobisher Drive' because Frobisher Drive is the road I lived in Swindon. And the Germans liked it, but what happened was, the record company was taken over by another huge record company and the Managing Director and all those people involved suddenly lost their jobs. This other company didn't really want to work with me in the rest of the world. They were happy to work with me in Germany but the deal was a worldwide deal so it meant I was able to get out of the rest of the world and the UK company I went with didn't like 'Frobisher Drive' and they asked us if we could change it to another name. So that's how 'In The Key Of G' came about.

ALAN: And the song 'At The Very Mention Of Your Name' it’s got quite an eerie intro hasn't it?

GILBERT: Yeah it’s nice. Well again, if you hear the Foster version, that's the appeal of the song. It used to be the opening number when we toured in the late 80s early 90s, the opener because of the nice string synth. Yeah it's a nice song. I'm glad you like that, you have good taste. [Laughter]

ALAN: Well thanks very much for speaking to us today Gilbert.

GILBERT: Pleasure. Well good luck with your show and I'm sure that you'll meet up with us again and as I say when we're in your neck of the woods hopefully we'll get to see you again and have a chat.

ALAN: That would be great.

Song Plays: 'At The Very Mention Of Your Name'