posted 21 January 2004 11:38 PM         

quote:

---

Originally posted by LimerickNomad:
According to Martin Kiely on the wireless tonight, all six
players have decided to play the big ball game this year.
Lucey, Keane, Begley, O'Brien, Conor Fitz and one other. They
made their decision known to Damian and Declan tonight, according
to Kiely.

Thoughts?

---

posted 21 January 2004 11:49 PM         

quote:

---

Originally posted by Faugh:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by LimerickNomad:
[b]According to Martin Kiely on the wireless tonight, all six
players have decided to play the big ball game this year.
Lucey, Keane, Begley, O'Brien, Conor Fitz and one other. They
made their decision known to Damian and Declan tonight, according
to Kiely.

Thoughts?

---

[/B][/QUOTE]

Surprised that Begley is going with the footballers, he is a better hurler and I'd doubt he would make the football team.

posted 22 January 2004 12:18 AM         

quote:

---

Originally posted by Faugh:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by LimerickNomad:
[b]According to Martin Kiely on the wireless tonight, all six
players have decided to play the big ball game this year.
Lucey, Keane, Begley, O'Brien, Conor Fitz and one other. They
made their decision known to Damian and Declan tonight, according
to Kiely.

Thoughts?

---

[/B][/QUOTE]

posted 22 January 2004 12:20 AM         

quote:

---

Originally posted by evileye:
medal chasers???glory hunters????
your a joke faugh.please no one entertain this ape cause he/she/it hasnt a clue what he/she/it is on about!!!

---

posted 22 January 2004 12:25 AM         

quote:

---

Originally posted by LimerickNomad:
According to Martin Kiely on the wireless tonight, all six
players have decided to play the big ball game this year.
Lucey, Keane, Begley, O'Brien, Conor Fitz and one other. They
made their decision known to Damian and Declan tonight, according
to Kiely.

Thoughts?

---

posted 22 January 2004 12:26 AM         

quote:

---

Originally posted by El Comandante jr:
evileye:Is it past your bed time.Your getting cranky.

---

posted 22 January 2004 09:47 AM         

The lads have made their choice and fair play to them. I wish
both teams the best of luck in their respective championships.
The more I see of the situation, the more I agree that both games
cannot be played at the top level at the same time anymore. Both
teams will improve because of this specialisation.

posted 22 January 2004 12:14 PM         

Limerick stars opt for football over hurling
Last updated: 22-01-04, 11:56

Limerick hurling manager Pat Joe Whelehan has received a defiant answer to his call for full commitment from his players with the news that all six of his dual players have decided to concentrate on football.

Mark O'Riordan, Stephen Lucey, Brian Begley, Mike O'Brien, Mark Keane and Conor Fitzgerald have all decided to join Joe Kearns' football panel for the upcoming championship.

The news comes after a meeting between the two managers failed to reach a compromise.

posted 22 January 2004 12:15 PM         

quote:

---

Originally posted by http://www.adaregaa.com:/
I don't think Mark o Riordan will be playing football this year. He hasn't been at training in a few weeks and the word among the footballers is that he's thrown in his lot with PJ

---

posted 22 January 2004 12:25 PM         

quote:

---

Originally posted by Givemtimber:

Mark O'Riordan, Stephen Lucey, Brian Begley, Mike O'Brien, Mark Keane and Conor Fitzgerald have all decided to join Joe Kearns' football panel for the upcoming championship.

The news comes after a meeting between the two managers failed to reach a compromise.

---

posted 22 January 2004 12:26 PM         

Isn't his father/family steeped in football tradition?

posted 22 January 2004 12:30 PM         

What the f*ck is that supposed to mean?? Teddy McCarthy an Denis Walsh played in a different era. With the demands on players, dual stars are almost extinct. Sad, but a fact of life.

quote:

---

Originally posted by El Comandante jr:
Steady on now Faugh. Are you calling the footballers "medal chasers",the footballers????.They have donated more time last year than any other and their loyalty to both hurling and football can not be questioned.The law was put down in front of them by a Biffo and because they made a decision, they are the guilty ones?.Nobody asked them to be good enough to play both codes(but they are)so why now cast the 1st stone.I say fair balls to them for making the choice and true maybe the hurlers will have a more dedicated panel on paper.Lets see when they tog out come championship time who has dedication.Decisions have been made,was it the right thing to do?.Nobody questioned Teddy McCarthy and Dennis Walsh's loyalty during their era.

---

posted 22 January 2004 12:51 PM         

Limerick, Dublin, Galway,Cork, Tipp and now even Waterford are making news with what is mainly ultimatums being issued by the mangaer of what is perceived to be the stronger code.

It always seems to focus on which code wins or loses but does not consider how the individual player feels.

It is about time some manager recognized that there is no "one best way here", looked at each case individually and found any common ground there is before making any conclusions.

posted 22 January 2004 01:17 PM         

quote:

---

Originally posted by Balbec:
Better to have it out in the open now and let both set ups move on. Yeah, it's a pity but none of the six are going to be allstar candidates in Hurling in the near future anyway.

Good luck to them, but I hope they are not just warming the bench for the footballers, then it would be a waste.

---

I think it's much better the decision was made now than just
before, or in the middle of, the championships themselves.

The lads were each given a choice and took it for better or
worse. Some of us are surprised and disappointed with the
choices made by some of the players. So be it.

posted 22 January 2004 01:26 PM         

Maybe people should not be surprised at the choice the players have made.I know Limerick is a traditional hurling couny but Is it any surprise they choose football? Liam Kearns has a professional set up in place for years now and a tightly knit bunch with great team spirit. They reached a Munster final in 2003 which the hurlers failed to do. The way the Limerick senior hurling team has been ran in recent years you could hardly call it professional and attributes like tightly knit bunch and team spirit dont apply either.

The amount of ego's that go with the hurlking set up in Limerick seems to be unreal. Not so with the footballers.

As a previous contributor stated none of the six asked to be good at both sports. It should not be used as a stick to beat them. Limerick GAA is in competition with rugby. When lads like Lucey et al get knocked for making a decision of one code over another after been backed into a corner one wonders would they have been better playing rugby which Lucey gave up and say sod off Limerick GAA.

posted 22 January 2004 01:29 PM         

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jinto:
For what its worth, my own opinion on this nationwide epidemic of dual playeritis is that it calls into question the real leadership skills of some highly vaulted managers.

Limerick, Dublin, Galway,Cork, Tipp and now even Waterford are making news with what is mainly ultimatums being issued by the mangaer of what is perceived to be the stronger code.

It always seems to focus on which code wins or loses but does not consider how the individual player feels.

It is about time some manager recognized that there is no "one best way here", looked at each case individually and found any common ground there is before making any conclusions.

Compromise is what we require here.

---

It appears here that the players did not chose football over hurling but rather didn't feel they should be dictated to

There is a belief that the irishman can be told what to do and he will comply

Tell him what not to do and he will not

The issue here is that players should be let play both and if participation in one causes sub standartd performance in the other then it is the onus on management to drop the individual if they are not reaching the standard required

posted 22 January 2004 01:40 PM         

quote:

---

Originally posted by referee is back:
None of the players deserve criticism which ever way they decide. All 6 are amateurs and if they decided to pack up GAA all together they would owe nothing to anybody.

Maybe people should not be surprised at the choice the players have made.I know Limerick is a traditional hurling couny but Is it any surprise they choose football? Liam Kearns has a professional set up in place for years now and a tightly knit bunch with great team spirit. They reached a Munster final in 2003 which the hurlers failed to do. The way the Limerick senior hurling team has been ran in recent years you could hardly call it professional and attributes like tightly knit bunch and team spirit dont apply either.

The amount of ego's that go with the hurlking set up in Limerick seems to be unreal. Not so with the footballers.

As a previous contributor stated none of the six asked to be good at both sports. It should not be used as a stick to beat them. Limerick GAA is in competition with rugby. When lads like Lucey et al get knocked for making a decision of one code over another after been backed into a corner one wonders would they have been better playing rugby which Lucey gave up and say sod off Limerick GAA.

Statement like players will not wear a Limerick hurling jersey again is ott and unfair on a bunch of lads who always gave it everything for the jersey whatever code. The way the Limerick senior team carry on dont be surprised if yere beloved 'Shaughs' declares for football as well.

---

posted 22 January 2004 01:41 PM         

Regardless of his attempts to strive for a fully committed squad, I dont think even he could have bargained for losing all 6 players. He has made his bed so he must now lie on it, but there is no way that this is good for Limerick Hurling.

Conor Fitz, Lucey and Begley are the main losses. Conor Fitz is a talented scoring forward in hurling, always seems to tack on the couple of points from play, such players are in scarce supply in Limerick Hurling.

We never got to see the Lucey and Lawlor midfield combination in Senior Hurling which is a pity, because they were a revelation together at under 21 in 2001. Lucey was a realistic option for Full Back, Centre Back, Midfield and Centre Forward. The driving force on the under 21 team in 2000 & 2001. A huge loss.

Then there is Begley, a player who has come in for more criticism than any other player over the past few years. Not in my eyes, I've always rated him highly, and I think he will be a huge addition to the footballers when fit. In 2000 in hurling he got at least a goal in every group game in the league, In the 2001 Championship he scored 0-3 vs Cork, 2-0 vs Waterford, 0-1 vs Tipp and 0-2 vs Wexford. He got 0-4 off the Rock in the qualifier in 2002. Last year he moved up another notch and at centre forward was winning hard ball turning going through and putting it over the bar. It was only when he was missing against Offaly people started to realise how much of a loss he was. However Begley also scored 6 or 7 goals in last years football league, and is a constant menace from high balls dropping in.

The trouble with these players leaving the hurling is that after a season out, it will take ages to bring them up to speed again, they have been developing over time into good hurlers and all that good work will go to waste. Going from hurling to football means that the sharper hurling brain and speed gives them an immediate advantage.

Does Limerick Hurling have the players to recover from losing so many big men???? I can well see a situation arising next summer of Limerick going well getting to the All Ireland and losing by a point, and we'll be all saying, "if only they had the footballers"

It might be a black day for the hurlers, but to Liam Kerins its like winnign the Lotto. Whith the full commitment from those 6, Limerick will have the biggest team in the country and in my opinion Limerick Footballers can be considered realistic All Ireland Contenders.

However, the players do not deserve any criticism. It isnt their fault that the system makes it difficult to accomodate dual players anymore. They all want to be allowed play both games but they are not, and its not their fault that they are not allowed play both games. The gun was put to their heads, unfairly in my opinion.

The county board chickened out once again. If Pajo Whelehan didnt want dual players, the county board should have took control of the situation last October and never let it get to the stage where 6 players were named on two panels.

posted 22 January 2004 01:56 PM         

quote:

---

Originally posted by South Limerick Referee:
Does Limerick Hurling have the players to recover from losing so many big men???? I can well see a situation arising next summer of Limerick going well getting to the All Ireland and losing by a point, and we'll be all saying, "if only they had the footballers"

B]

---

Can you actually see this happening? I certainly can't. Maybe lose a munster final by a point but certainly not an all Ireland.

I agree with you with your assessment of these players. I think that all bar Begley are better footballers than hurlers. I was surprised that he chose football. He is one of only a handful of players that are gauranteed a starting spot on the hurling team. He is the only forward we have with a real physical presence. I was looking forward to him getting the better of DOS again this summer. Somehow I don't think beefy will be a good replacement. Begley will do very well to get a spot on the football team. His role in the football may well be as an impact sub.
Lucey is a loss but not a huge one as he hasn't played much senior hurling over the last few years. Conor Fitz as you say is a scoring forward and we can't afford to be losing them.
All in all a bad day for Limerick hurling but hopefully there will be no more trouble in the coming months now and they can get a decent team together for May 30th.

posted 22 January 2004 02:32 PM         

Having said that the hurling draw could have been worse as well.

I agree with Liam Mac, this issue needs to end right now, and assembly of a hurling team to take place. The last thing needed is for Pajo to come out in a months time and say that he is willing to accomodate dual players and the whole thing to erupt again.

posted 22 January 2004 04:01 PM         

quote:

---

Originally posted by evileye:
slr you have wrote a very good article further above but i dont agree with this statement.i think the lads choose football out of the massive respect they have for liam kerins.for 4 years now he has been a father figure to all his players and has never once given them an ultamatim(bad spelling).every year for the last few in limerick the hurling set up has tried to get rid of dual players.as far as i can see they always tought deep down the lads would choose hurling.in a way im delighted they stood up for there beliefs and stuck by liam kerins cause we have genuine footballers in this county who can go on and challenge for trophys but as i said earlier its a pity some peole cannot play hurling 4 limerick due to certain laws.i think the lads were sick of having a gun put to their head about playing both codes and lets be honest the gun was coming from the hurling.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by South Limerick Referee:
[B]Its the attractive Munster Championship Draw in football rather than football itself that has made the football attractive to the dual players. Perhaps in a different year with a different draw, it might have been different.

---

I agree thee is huge respect for Liam Kerins, and there seems to have been harmony within the squad since he took over. However If Limerick were drawn in a first round with Kerry and a Semi with Cork, would they all have made the same decision????

I suppose it would be fair to say that the football is the more attractive proposition for several reasons, and the fact that there is a favourable draw, enhances that attractiveness even more.

posted 22 January 2004 04:10 PM         

Pajoes going to have to work a lot of that magic of his. The central positions were the problem positions, it going to be an even bigger problem now.

quote:

---

Originally posted by tmc:
This team of hurlers is not training with the limerick squad at the moment.
1)Timmy Houlihan,
2)Mike Clifford,
3)Jack Foley,
4)Mark O'Riordan,
5)Eoin Foley,
6)Paudie O’Dwyer,
7)Clem Smith,
8)Stephen Lucey,
9)Mike O'Brien,
10)Conor Fitzgerald,
11)James Moran,
12)Barry Foley,
13)Andrew O'Shaughnessy,
14)Brian Begley,
15)Mark Keane.
I don't have much hope left. Some of these lads would walk onto the team in better circumstances, most should be training now if we were serious about the munster cup. Hopefully Padjoe can get alot out of the new players.

---

posted 22 January 2004 04:12 PM         

is it any surprise though.did pad joe not consider that kearns and the players have a deadly bond.in 2001 begley opted for hurling and no one complained.now though everyone in the hurling set up will probably be giving out.

if begley had chosen hurling i wouldnt have been bothered.he is a better hurler.somewhat limited as a footballer but concentrating on football only may improve his game.mike o brien will find it hard to make the football team as will mark keane but neither were not really going anywhere with the hurlers.

the hurlers will struggle especially as 5 of the players were all ireland 21 winners.but i would find it hard to see begley, lucey or fitz not being called up at some stage.i would have expected the footballers to lose 1 or 2 maybe and if that was the case kearns would have got on with it, just like he did in 2001 and 2002.

to say that these players will not play for the hurlers again is a bit stupid.i imagine though that this may turn out to be a one off,unless limerick bring back sam maguire.

posted 22 January 2004 05:13 PM         

quote:

---

Originally posted by referee is back:
None of the players deserve criticism which ever way they decide. All 6 are amateurs and if they decided to pack up GAA all together they would owe nothing to anybody.

Maybe people should not be surprised at the choice the players have made.I know Limerick is a traditional hurling couny but Is it any surprise they choose football? Liam Kearns has a professional set up in place for years now and a tightly knit bunch with great team spirit. They reached a Munster final in 2003 which the hurlers failed to do. The way the Limerick senior hurling team has been ran in recent years you could hardly call it professional and attributes like tightly knit bunch and team spirit dont apply either.

The amount of ego's that go with the hurlking set up in Limerick seems to be unreal. Not so with the footballers.

As a previous contributor stated none of the six asked to be good at both sports. It should not be used as a stick to beat them. Limerick GAA is in competition with rugby. When lads like Lucey et al get knocked for making a decision of one code over another after been backed into a corner one wonders would they have been better playing rugby which Lucey gave up and say sod off Limerick GAA.

Statement like players will not wear a Limerick hurling jersey again is ott and unfair on a bunch of lads who always gave it everything for the jersey whatever code. The way the Limerick senior team carry on dont be surprised if yere beloved 'Shaughs' declares for football as well.

---

posted 22 January 2004 05:24 PM         

quote:

---

Originally posted by South Limerick Referee:
I agree thee is huge respect for Liam Kerins, and there seems to have been harmony within the squad since he took over. However If Limerick were drawn in a first round with Kerry and a Semi with Cork, would they all have made the same decision????

I suppose it would be fair to say that the football is the more attractive proposition for several reasons, and the fact that there is a favourable draw, enhances that attractiveness even more.

[This message has been edited by South Limerick Referee (edited 22 January 2004).]

---

posted 22 January 2004 06:05 PM         

Even with the above players the Limerick hurlers would probably have fallen short of major honours in 2004, without them its going to be impossible. The number of problem positions on the hurling team has multiplied.

The 50 man panel is now down to 44. From this 44, PJ will have to make a team that is greater than the sum of its parts. Who knows if ballwinners like the Sheehans, O'Donnell and these guys can be got to hurl faster, things mightent be too bad. Looking on the bright side of things, PJ will have a completely focussed 30 man squad, which cannot be that bad either. The last time Limerick had no dual players (in 2001) the hurlers got to a Munster Final and got to Croke park.