posted 10 September 2003 12:53 AM         

If the manager remained, the feeling at the meeting was that the problems would not have been solved. Even with the appointment of a new manager, he will have a tough task on his hands to straighten out the messers, and to implement the gelling process within the squad.

Nominations will now be sought from the clubs for the position of manager. The names of Eamon Cregan, Tom Ryan, Ger Loughnane PJ O'Grady and Pat Fleury could be among those nominated. Outside of those there could be anybody.

posted 10 September 2003 08:52 AM         

Also what was the draw for the hurling.

posted 10 September 2003 08:56 AM         

quote:

---

Originally posted by Les Battersby:
Was there any discussion regarding Kerins and the limerick football job.Is he staying?

Also what was the draw for the hurling.

81-16 was an overwhelming vote.As i said already on this site he had to go.It is a sad day to see a man lose his job but at the end of the day he had to go.
Id love Ger Loughnane.Ger is the man to do it.

---

Agreed, bring on Ger.......

posted 10 September 2003 09:03 AM         

quote:

---

Originally posted by Anna:
Agreed, bring on Ger.......

Saw a programme about him on TG4 last night, very good.

---

posted 10 September 2003 09:10 AM         

quote:

---

Originally posted by Les Battersby:
Was there any discussion regarding Kerins and the limerick football job.Is he staying?

Also what was the draw for the hurling.

81-16 was an overwhelming vote.As i said already on this site he had to go.It is a sad day to see a man lose his job but at the end of the day he had to go.
Id love Ger Loughnane.Ger is the man to do it.

---

Adare v Killmalock
Ahane v Patrickswell

posted 10 September 2003 09:22 AM         

quote:

---

Originally posted by scalder:
Sad for Limerick lads I really had Limerick with Keane at the helm as the dark horse for 2003, could never have forseen it all going so wrong. The new manager faces a tough task by all accounts, can you Limerick boys outline whats at the heart of the matter here?

---

How long have you got!

posted 10 September 2003 09:39 AM         

quote:

---

Originally posted by scalder:
Sad for Limerick lads I really had Limerick with Keane at the helm as the dark horse for 2003, could never have forseen it all going so wrong. The new manager faces a tough task by all accounts, can you Limerick boys outline whats at the heart of the matter here?

---

posted 10 September 2003 10:03 AM         

quote:

---

Originally posted by sid wallace:
Limerick made the same lazy assumption that Waterford made a decade earlier about u-21 success leading to senior success. Indeed there are very compelling analogies betweeen the two outfits, the obvious indiscipline, the child prodigies, the problems aganst Kerry etc.
When Waterford won the All-Ireland u-21 in 92 the overwhelming favourites that year were Clare, managed by Loughnane. Waterford beat them. Clare used the experience to fashion one of the best senior sides of the 90s. Waterford used the experience to pat themselves on the back for 4 years before they got their ass into gear, ultimately missing the boat.

---

Its really tough on Dave Keane, getting booted out after 1 year and after all his U21 success, but really after the balls he made of the job this year he had to go....its impossible to regain respect of players if it has been lost, as it quite clearly was...no matter what he did next year, the young lads would always view him as a soft touch and the older lads would view him as biased against them...

looking back at the men who have managed teams to an AI in the last 7-8 years, fellas like Cody, JBM, Loughnane, English, Cregan, these guys were all fantastic hurling men with exceptional records as players; they could command respect both inside and outside their counties; their players would do anything for them; Limerick need someone like that(so do Tipp but thats for another day!!)...so who will it be????

posted 10 September 2003 12:14 PM         

THERE WILL ALSO BE A HUGE EXPECTANCY FACTOR WHICH WILL ADD TO THE ALREADY HYSTERICAL OVEREXPECTATIONS IN LIMERICK ;THIS WOULD ADD TO THE BALLYHOO ; I REALLY DO NOT KNOW WHO IS THE RIGHT MAN FOR THE POST NOW

IT MUST BE THE RIGHT CHOICE ON THIS OCCASION WHICH WILL END THE BICKERING ; FAILURE TO DO SO NOW WILL SPELL THE DEATH KNELL FOR THE GAME IN LIMERICK

YES FOLKS DO NOT BE FOOLED IT IS THIS SERIOUS ; I AM NOT OVERLY OPTIMISTIC ; THE STADIUM HAS LEFT A CRIPPLING DEBT AND A STRONG COUNTY AND LOCAL SCENE WILL BE ESSENTIAL TO ADDRESS THIS ;

THE GAME IN LIMERICK IS NOW A BIGGER LAUGH THAN TOM AND PASCAL ; THE COUNTY BOARD MAY WELL GO FOR THE BIG NAME TO BAIL THEM OUT TEMPORARILY

GOODBYE

posted 10 September 2003 12:17 PM         

quote:

---

Originally posted by questioner:
Co Board begrudgery....the curse of the GAA.

---

elaBORATE

posted 10 September 2003 12:17 PM         

quote:

---

Originally posted by questioner:
Co Board begrudgery....the curse of the GAA.

---

posted 10 September 2003 12:32 PM         

quote:

---

Originally posted by LimerickNomad:
What was in his 15 point plan that he presented last night? This
could have gone against him during the meeting too, considering
the margin of defeat at the end.

P.S. Come out of hiding Trimble? I know you're still around...

---

nomad

the knives were well sharpened before the meeting ;

posted 10 September 2003 12:50 PM         

quote:

---

Originally posted by LimerickNomad:
What was in his 15 point plan that he presented last night? This
could have gone against him during the meeting too, considering
the margin of defeat at the end.

P.S. Come out of hiding Trimble? I know you're still around...

---

posted 10 September 2003 01:39 PM         

We all hear the rumours, but when theres concrete evidence of the rumours, theres something seriously wrong.

The county board were more than happy to keep Keane, but there would have to be selector changes. Keane insisted that they were all part of one unit. If they went he went. Hence the overwhelming vote against him I suspect.

I guess it all started during the Under 21 tenure in 2000, the very first year, you had the footballers doing well and after beating Cork in the football at the Park, there was trouble that night, a couple of arrests below in Cork. Twas mainly hurlers that were on the P1ss. Essentially you had a group of players who got on really well together, and and made the most of their nights out after games. A lot of that football squad were on the hurling as well and they won the All Ireland that year, sessions after all the big games, they were becoming serious buddies. In 2001 the All Ireland was retained, sessions after all the games again. A good time was had by all. However after winning the 2001 title, they all celebrated like mad, members of management and all, twas like a big family. I guess when you are winning you get away with it. In 2002, the winning continued, and when you have been used to socialising together, it sort of continues. Players might begin to think its possible to burn both ends of the candle at the highest level. Its difficult for management to intervene, when they have been part of it, and the games are being won.

Enter Senior Management, A group of players are there who broke their ho*es training for 5 years without reward, and a group of players laden with silverware coming in to join them. The manager naturally would have a certain bias towards those who did the business for him in the tight games at under 21 when he needed it most.

There would be a certain amount of jealousey among the senior members, at the way the youngsters were being brought in and blooded, starting on a higher pedestal than those already there. There was also jealousy towards the success, senior players believing that they had put in far more effort in the same time with nothing to show for it.

Then there was the family dispute going back a few years, didnt help either. There was the youngsters continuing to burn both ends of the candle and yet being continually selected ahead of others who were disciplined in their approach. Essentially under 21's were being picked on reputation rather than the form at the time.

It sort of all came to a head then, and you had the walkouts. I suppose everyone wanted Keane to get a second chance, but there was always the feeling things wouldnt change. The new manager will have to bond the squad before any hurling is done. Theres a tough task ahead.

The vote was made by the delegates, a lot of them listening to pub talk and talk after mass on a sunday. You'd wonder is that the best method. It seems Keane had a 15 point plan made out for the new season, why wasnt he given a chance to implement that????

As for that manager, I dont know, you need someone who wont show a club bias when theres a critical selection to be made. I'd be looking for a tough taskmaster with a proven reputation for dealing with troublesome players. Pat Fleury would be wort talking to I think. He teaches in Limerick CBS, knows the players available and did the Offaly Job. He lives in Castleconnell, which isnt that far away. He captained Offaly to All Ireland Success, and managed Offaly to an All Ireland Final so knows whats involved.

Loughnane, though living in Shannon, might not be familiar with the club scene, though in fairness there arent too many nobodies, going to make the breakthrough. A new squad will contain 90% of the current squad, the remainder made up by those who lost out last time.

I wouldnt even bother with Bond, Farrell or Jimmy Barry Murphy, they are all too far away. I would have considered Justin, but he's staying put.

Eamon Cregan wouldnt go back i'd say, but look at his record with Limerick. Has he ever won a club title with a Limerick Club????

Tom Ryan might get back, he'll take no sh1t, if it came to a vote of delegates he'd be confident, but the executive committee would never let it come to that i'd say. Tom would openly burn members of the county board for shafting him and i'd say they wont let him back.

I know nothing about Pat Herberts record, maybe he has been part of Ahane successes, Hegarty did a bit with UL and dont know if Fitzgibbon has any experience either.

I wouldnt know where to go outside those. PJ O'Grady is a non runner, his two Patrickswell forwards on the Limerick Under 21 team are only subs on the Patrickswell club team. I'm not sure about Dave Clarke either. Its a pity Mike Mac isnt available.

John Lacey perhaps???????

posted 10 September 2003 02:19 PM         

quote:

---

Originally posted by liam mac:
I hear that Pat Herbert is being linked with it now with Shane Fitzgibbon and Ger Hegerty as selectors.

---

If thats the best we can come up with we may as well forget about it. Herbert will pick all the Ahane boys, Fitzgibbon will pick the Adare Boys, there will be rows over whether to pick Jack Foley or Ollie Moran at centre back. James Moran Captain.

How about Padjoe Whelehan??????

posted 10 September 2003 02:34 PM         

Dave Keane,after landing 3 All Irelands and 3 Munster titles in a row...GETS EIGHTEEN VOTES IN A BALLOT???

Assuming that 2 would have come from his own club,this would probably reduce it to 16.

It is more serious that being a mere laughing stock..Limerick Hurling is in danger of dying on it's feet if this is how we reward our managers.

The problems he has had are well documented,and I dont want to go into them again.

However,as a county who have not won an All Ireland for 30 years,was Keane not entitled to just 12 MONTHS to get it right?

Are we so arrogant,after all that he has done for us,that we deny him this opportunity??

Talk of new Managers are immaterial at this stage...we have fcuked up so badly with this one,that it does not matter who we bring in...we are only codding ourselves.

We are in a dreadful state...we have a 12m stadium with no hurling team or Manager.

We are in the final stages of our County championships where a manager should be looking at any new talent..when is the new Manager going to get this opportunity?

We are looking for our FOURTH Manager in just over 12 months..remember Mossy Carroll was also appointed for a brief period during the Cregan fiasco.

Our Senior players who have won FCUKALL in 7 years feel they did not have the respect of Dave Keane.

The 4 players who blackguarded Dave Keane with their drinking sessions should hang their heads in shame..and never be offered a County JERSEY AGAIN.

Our minor hurlers scored ONE POINT v Tipperary in the championship this year.

So..the next time the County Board come calling with their glossy Mackey Stand rochures,remember how they treated Dave Keane.

I will never put a penny into their coffers again.

So,**** the "Senior players",Fcuk the Famous Four drinkers,and Fcuk the County Board delegates who would not give this man ONE more year.

WE ARE FINISHED.

Dave...they dont desrve you..Thanks for the memories.

posted 10 September 2003 02:41 PM         

I've heard the Ahane manager might be a runner.

None of the 94-96 vintage players appeal to me as management material, yet at least.

We'll certainly need a manager who will kick fellas off the panel for good if they decide they want a lock-in in The Hurlers of a tuesday night or if they think two weeks on the pi$$ in Crete in the middle of July would is a good idea.

Keane getting the bullet is a bit like Bobby Kennedy getting shot, the dream is over.

posted 10 September 2003 03:29 PM         

I dont know who you are, but suspect that you may have county experience and that you play for Birr based on past posts. My opinions on the Offaly camp are based on looking in from the outside, and I never really knew the real issues. High Spirited and Independent is your definition, troublesome is mine, comparisons to the Dutch soccer squad have been made in the past. Great Hurlers we both agree on.

What do you think of Fleury as a candidate for the Limerick post??? Would he be interested????

quote:

---

Originally posted by Loughers:
> I'd be interested to know what Pat
> Fleury's current situation is. He has
> experience of managing a troublesome
> intercounty camp, yet is an outsider with > no loyalties and may well be worth careful > consideration.

SLR, "a troublesome intercounty camp". High spirited, independent and some great hurlers. I think "troublesome" is a bit harsh. Agree with all you said about Keane.

---

posted 10 September 2003 03:37 PM         

quote:

---

Originally posted by South Limerick Referee:
Festy,

We all hear the rumours, but when theres concrete evidence of the rumours, theres something seriously wrong.

The county board were more than happy to keep Keane, but there would have to be selector changes. Keane insisted that they were all part of one unit. If they went he went. Hence the overwhelming vote against him I suspect.

I guess it all started during the Under 21 tenure in 2000, the very first year, you had the footballers doing well and after beating Cork in the football at the Park, there was trouble that night, a couple of arrests below in Cork. Twas mainly hurlers that were on the P1ss. Essentially you had a group of players who got on really well together, and and made the most of their nights out after games. A lot of that football squad were on the hurling as well and they won the All Ireland that year, sessions after all the big games, they were becoming serious buddies. In 2001 the All Ireland was retained, sessions after all the games again. A good time was had by all. However after winning the 2001 title, they all celebrated like mad, members of management and all, twas like a big family. I guess when you are winning you get away with it. In 2002, the winning continued, and when you have been used to socialising together, it sort of continues. Players might begin to think its possible to burn both ends of the candle at the highest level. Its difficult for management to intervene, when they have been part of it, and the games are being won.

Enter Senior Management, A group of players are there who broke their ho*es training for 5 years without reward, and a group of players laden with silverware coming in to join them. The manager naturally would have a certain bias towards those who did the business for him in the tight games at under 21 when he needed it most.

There would be a certain amount of jealousey among the senior members, at the way the youngsters were being brought in and blooded, starting on a higher pedestal than those already there. There was also jealousy towards the success, senior players believing that they had put in far more effort in the same time with nothing to show for it.

Then there was the family dispute going back a few years, didnt help either. There was the youngsters continuing to burn both ends of the candle and yet being continually selected ahead of others who were disciplined in their approach. Essentially under 21's were being picked on reputation rather than the form at the time.

It sort of all came to a head then, and you had the walkouts. I suppose everyone wanted Keane to get a second chance, but there was always the feeling things wouldnt change. The new manager will have to bond the squad before any hurling is done. Theres a tough task ahead.

The vote was made by the delegates, a lot of them listening to pub talk and talk after mass on a sunday. You'd wonder is that the best method. It seems Keane had a 15 point plan made out for the new season, why wasnt he given a chance to implement that????

As for that manager, I dont know, you need someone who wont show a club bias when theres a critical selection to be made. I'd be looking for a tough taskmaster with a proven reputation for dealing with troublesome players. Pat Fleury would be wort talking to I think. He teaches in Limerick CBS, knows the players available and did the Offaly Job. He lives in Castleconnell, which isnt that far away. He captained Offaly to All Ireland Success, and managed Offaly to an All Ireland Final so knows whats involved.

Loughnane, though living in Shannon, might not be familiar with the club scene, though in fairness there arent too many nobodies, going to make the breakthrough. A new squad will contain 90% of the current squad, the remainder made up by those who lost out last time.

I wouldnt even bother with Bond, Farrell or Jimmy Barry Murphy, they are all too far away. I would have considered Justin, but he's staying put.

Eamon Cregan wouldnt go back i'd say, but look at his record with Limerick. Has he ever won a club title with a Limerick Club????

Tom Ryan might get back, he'll take no sh1t, if it came to a vote of delegates he'd be confident, but the executive committee would never let it come to that i'd say. Tom would openly burn members of the county board for shafting him and i'd say they wont let him back.

I know nothing about Pat Herberts record, maybe he has been part of Ahane successes, Hegarty did a bit with UL and dont know if Fitzgibbon has any experience either.

I wouldnt know where to go outside those. PJ O'Grady is a non runner, his two Patrickswell forwards on the Limerick Under 21 team are only subs on the Patrickswell club team. I'm not sure about Dave Clarke either. Its a pity Mike Mac isnt available.

John Lacey perhaps???????

[This message has been edited by South Limerick Referee (edited 10 September 2003).]

---

posted 10 September 2003 03:40 PM         

quote:

---

Originally posted by South Limerick Referee:
Loughers,

I dont know who you are, but suspect that you may have county experience and that you play for Birr based on past posts. My opinions on the Offaly camp are based on looking in from the outside, and I never really knew the real issues. High Spirited and Independent is your definition, troublesome is mine, comparisons to the Dutch soccer squad have been made in the past. Great Hurlers we both agree on.

What do you think of Fleury as a candidate for the Limerick post??? Would he be interested????

---

posted 10 September 2003 03:47 PM         

quote:

---

Originally posted by liam mac:
Gunther,
As usual you are talking crap. I can’t agree with all of the county boards decisions but they’re not the worst. They gave Keane the job as he was the obvious candidate. Even thought they didn’t agree with his selection as trainer they rightly let him pick his own man(something they should have done with Cregan it must be said). After a year of constant bickering in the camp due to excess drinking and lack of discipline we produced our worst ever championship performance in my opinion. Was this down to the county board? No. It was down to management who made a total mess of things and players who couldn’t stay out of the pub for five minutes. Should the management be given a second chance after this year? Not a hope. Nobody in their right mind would have expected an AI this year but we did expect a bit of commitment. If the manager can’t get that from the players he picks then he has to go.
The Limerick county board treat the players better than most. They appoint the manager they think best for the job and let them get on with it. Look at how well the footballers are doing. If the hurlers got on with the job in a similar fashion to the footballers this year there would have been no problem
They have put in place a fantastic stadium with little help from Croke park. It’s a job they did right and deserve the financial support they get.
So my advice to you Gunther is to go way and have a few pints with your NCW buddies and let them listen to you bull instead of boring the rest of us.

---

I happen to believe that the County Board DOES bear some responsibility for what went on last year,not all,but some.

They should have had their finger on the pulse on what's going on,and intervened if they thought it was neccesary,instead of letting it go as far as it did.

I dont think that suggesting that Keane deserved another year deserved your Smart Alec replies either.

If you are that dismissive of a man who has lead us to the success we have had over the last 3 years,then you are a knob.

And..you dont have to be telling me about the Gaelic Grounds either..I'm one of the clowns that has to chase the money every month.

Debate the issues at hand..but dont be such a smartass...I am as piss*ed off as anyone about how this has turned out.

posted 10 September 2003 03:48 PM         

Just as a matter of interest on the 1973 team and their managerial experience. I'll go through it and people might help me fill in the blanks.

Seamus Horgan - ?
Willie Moore - ?
Pat Hartigan - ?
Jim O'Brien - ?
Phil Bennis - Limerick Manager Minor, U21 Senior. Limited Success at Senior, Minor & Under 21 All Irelands.

Eamon Cregan - More Success in Offaly than Limerick, even at club level

Sean Foley - ?
Richie Bennis - ?
Eamon Grimes - ?
Liam O'Donoghue - Limerick Mnanger 1990 & 1991, removed a year before his term has expired

Mossie Dowling - ?
Bernie Hartigan - ?
Frankie Nolan - ?
Ned Rea - ?
Joe McKenna - ?

posted 10 September 2003 03:53 PM         

quote:

---

Originally posted by Loughers:
SLR, to be fair to you, I'd say they're somewhere in between our definitions. Troublesome in a find of Dennis the Menace fashion. For all the stories about Johnny P et al, they gave their all for Offaly, which could not be said of the current crop of Limerick lads. Fleury got as much out of Offaly as he could. An AI final from on team on a serious down curve. He's passionate about the game, and I think he'd definitely be interested. I do believe that an outsider has a much better chance in a county like Limerick, Offaly or Waterford.

---

posted 10 September 2003 03:55 PM         

he hadn`t the courage to make an example of anyone.
he should have been the one getting rid of people , not the other way around.
in mark foleys case he should have dumped him for better or for worse regardless of how right his case might have been.
managing is not democratic it has to be tyranny. ypu must treat players well but there can never be the slightest doubt as to who is calling the shots. with keane this was never the case as far as i can see.