4 February 2004
Dr. Henry: I welcome the Minister of State and the Bill. As Senator Terry asked, where would we be but for EU directives? At least we do not seem to be seeking derogations to the same extent as in the past. As a veteran of the derogation that was sought from the EU directive on equal pay for men and women, I can vouch for the progress that has been made.
4 o'clock
Unfortunately, there is still a disappointing attitude in this country towards equality legislation. There are still people who are reckoned to be more equal than others and it is sad that we must introduce so much legislation at the last minute to ensure changes are enforced. After the Good Friday Agreement, the Irish and British Governments established an institution in Queen's University Belfast, the Centre for Advancement of Women in Politics in the School of Politics and International Studies. After the discovery last week that Ireland and Malta are the only countries out of 45 which did not amend their representation to the Council of Europe to include at least one woman as required, one wonders if the two governments should not establish a reciprocal centre in the Republic. The centre produces good booklets which I regularly receive. If anybody wishes, they are welcome to read them. I have a particular interest in a recent one entitled, "How can women MPs make a difference? Reconsidering group representation and the responsible party model", written by Helena Catt.
When the Council of Europe suggested that the composition of the national representation there should be changed to include at least one woman, it did not do so for statistical reasons or because it would be nice to see a pink or red suit among the grey. It did so for the reasons that people elect women to parliament and other bodies, so they can represent the half of the electorate which is poorly represented in these Houses. It is not that men cannot represent women's issues or that women cannot represent men's issues. However, one has to reckon with the fact that one may be in a better position to conduct the representation in the place where the decisions are being made. For a start, one will be bringing forward original rather than secondhand information.
Every representative is contacted by interest groups and stakeholders and everybody knows that, especially within this House, it is better to have this type of representation because it leads to better decision making. However, the House is poorly representative from a socio-economic point of view. Few Members of either House are from the lower socio-economic groups. When people have managed to become Members of the Houses of the Oireachtas, the least we can do is try to ensure, when other bodies request that there be some type of gender equality in the country's representation, that we try to fulfil that request. They are not making such requests for their entertainment.
Women have a special responsibility. Many of them were elected for party political reasons but given our use of the single transferable vote system, it is possible that some people voted for them within that party because they were women and they wanted more women in parliament so more women's issues might be brought forward. Our presence has nothing to do with feminism but with representation of the electorate, some of whom have interests which they believe might be better represented by women. Fortunately, if they want women in parliament, they are in a position to elect them.
It is interesting to see the change that has occurred with what one might describe as the hereditary seats. In the past, the seat went from grandfather to father to son. Now, one sees some seats going to daughters, some of whom have been extremely effective representatives. One has to look on this as an improvement.
In some areas it can be essential to have women on a delegation. I discovered the importance of this recently when I was asked to go with a delegation of international parliamentarians to see projects in Ethiopia that were being promoted by the World Bank. One of the difficulties was seeing the conditions in Muslim households. A great mistake the American Army has made in Iraq is bursting into women's bedrooms when raiding houses because that will never be forgiven. The delegation I was on was composed of equal numbers of women and men and some of the women were asked to go and see what the situation was in the houses. A man could not be sent and first hand information was needed about what was happening. There might be a useful role for people in that regard.
It was extraordinarily disappointing to hear the comments from two Members of the other House, one from Fianna Fáil and one from Fine Gael, on why women might not want to be on the Council of Europe. I was particularly disappointed by the Fine Gael Member's comments because I had travelled with him, former Deputy Moosajee Bhamjee and former Senator Dan Kiely to darkest Romania. Was there ever a more representative group? We even travelled near Dracula's castle and I was not the slightest bit frightened. Indeed, I was extremely entertained by former Senator Dan Kiely playing the spoons. He was a great success, as I told the Taoiseach when I returned home.
Dr. Henry: Our parliamentary debates can influence public opinion and we can relay useful information as well.
We are thankful that Senator White has returned from her dangerous mission to Colombia. She was most courageous because that is a far worse place to visit than most of the places visited by members of the Council of Europe. I was the first person to go into Tehran after the first Gulf War. I went up to the mountains to see what was happening there with the supplies from the International Red Cross. I was sent because I was a middle aged Irish woman and it was thought I was the least likely person to encounter trouble. A Dutchman was the follow-up party. Sometimes it is an advantage to have women on delegations.
The comments I mentioned were an indirect form of discrimination. I look forward to one of the Fianna Fáil members being replaced by one of the women Fianna Fáil members. That would be the best approach because the party has some excellent members who could be most useful on the Council of Europe. There is no reason that preference should be given to another party.
I have devoted my contribution to discussing women, which is no harm. However, I have been sent some amendments by FLAC which is concerned about discriminations in the Bill against non-nationals. I hope the Minister will be willing to accept them. They refer in particular to education and education grants. We will discuss them on Committee Stage.
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