28 June 2005
Dr. Henry: It is a good day for the Minister as she has support from the Opposition side of the House. As Senator Quinn said, she is correct in leaving matters as they stand. It is difficult dealing with different groups of residents and there is no way of knowing that one will not end up with four or six residents' groups.
While I can see the very good reasons for which Senators Ulick Burke and Norris have tabled this amendment, section 12(3) (b) covers the scenario, as well as section 12(3)(c), which states that the agency shall "make arrangements for the making of submissions by interested parties in relation to the draft and the consideration by the Agency of any such submissions".
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Dr. Henry: The problem I see with electing a chairperson is that the agency is a very disparate group. On the day, it is difficult, even if members are given resumés in advance, to know where people stand and this must be taken into consideration. While I would love to see two residents selected, I have a concern about people being elected from the area because I do not know who the electorate will be or the criteria for getting on the election panel. Would a local representative be elected? We need to think carefully about such matters.
I have been on boards, for example Comhairle na nOspidéal, where the chairperson was selected by the Minister and not elected. Some chairpersons won the hearts and minds of the rest of us, but others did not. Comhairle na nOspidéal is the nearest I can think of to the sort of grouping that will be on this agency. When we came together, I did not know 80% of the people on it and I am sure the same is true for most of the others. Electing people about whom one knows very little is difficult, even with a resumé.
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Dr. Henry: The important thing to remember is that we might not always have a Minister like the Minister we have today.
Mr. Norris: Exactly.
Mr. Brady: The Minister could be from the other side.
Dr. Henry: We have to think about the types of Minister we could have in the future.
Mr. Norris: We should think about the types of Minister we have had in the past.
Mr. Brady: We could have a Minister from the Independent benches.
Dr. Henry: I am not trying to protect my profession. I get worried when people other than medical professionals give opinions on whether someone has become "incapable through ill-health of performing his or her functions". This section of the Bill is loosely worded. If a member of the proposed agency becomes really difficult, it will be easy for the Minister to say that the problem with her is that she is very ill and that she should go. The current Minister, Deputy Hanafin, would never act in such a manner. I would be grateful if she could outline some very good reasons for giving a future Minister sweeping powers to remove a person from the agency.
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Dr. Henry: I am more worried now that I have listened to the comments of Senators Tuffy and Fitzgerald. I hope the Minister will not have to expose someone's private health details.
Mr. Fitzgerald: No. Nobody has suggested that.
Dr. Henry: That would be truly shocking.
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Dr. Henry: I can see why there are concerns about this but I understood the Minister to say that while the consultative group must give the report to the chairperson there is nothing to stop it from giving the report to everyone on the board. I am a little worried that the chair of the consultative group has to be the chief executive of the agency.
Ms M. Hanafin: Or a person nominated by the chief executive.
Dr. Henry: This might lead to subservient types feeling restricted from giving it to the whole group but it is likely the consultative group will probably give it to everyone. It would be foolish not to, especially if it was a written report.
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Dr. Henry: Many different and disparate groups will be represented on the consultative group and it will be impossible for them to keep their mouths shut. They are, therefore, bound to tell others what is in the report because they will report back to the groups they represent and everybody in the agency as well as in the entire district is likely to know.
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Dr. Henry: Yet again we, as Members of the Oireachtas, are removing ourselves from pleasurable bodies such as this agency. I do not understand why in the Oireachtas we make ourselves unsuitable for so many bodies. I comment on this because it happens all the time.
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Dr. Henry: This agency has many health aspects but the same principle does not apply to members who are consultants in the health service, as the former Deputy Moosajee Bhamjee and I discovered when we tried to take leave from our positions. The principle of secondment is selective.
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Dr. Henry: I too congratulate the Minister on introducing this legislation and having it passed by both Houses so rapidly. I am sure the help of her officials was invaluable. Practical legislation of this sort is incredibly important. This Bill injects life into that area in Grangegorman which has been very run down for many years. It should make a great difference to the people of the area. I take particular joy in the fact that it is going to make such a difference to the Dublin Institute of Technology.
I spoke on Second Stage about my admiration for all those who have worked in the various schools in the DIT. Senator Fitzgerald is right to talk about those involved in vocational education such as Eamon Tuffy, and the effort put in by so many. The various schools within the institute benefited not only the country but also many individuals. The institute transformed the lives of many to perhaps a far greater extent than was the case with most of our universities for many decades. I heartily congratulate all involved in the Dublin Institute of Technology on what they have done and will do in the future.
I should have mentioned my special interest in this area when I spoke on Second Stage. I lectured in physiology at the Kevin Street facility for a time. It was new at that stage, an indication of how long ago it was, and we were tripping over building blocks. I ask the Minister to keep in mind the pleas of Senator Ormonde and I that we should not be obliged to attend the opening of the new facility at Grangegorman on zimmer frames. I support Senator Ulick Burke in urging that the resources be provided to allow the agency to proceed with its work as quickly as possible.
The Third Schedule might suggest that by the time all these properties are sold, it should be possible to build as magnificent a campus as could be desired. However, I am sure the Minister will have to provide additional resources. I look forward to seeing how the legislation is brought to fruition. I congratulate the Minister and all those from the Dublin Institute of Technology who have done such work in the past and will now enjoy the benefits of suitable accommodation.
Senator Fitzgerald raised the issue of university status. Many graduates of the Dublin Institute of Technology were happy to be constituents of mine as a consequence of having their degrees conferred by Trinity College. It is only for a short time that this has not been the case and we must look to the future in this regard. I hope those involved in the DIT will remember that they do not have to set up a university of their own.
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