16 February 2005
Dr. Henry: I thank Senator Quinn for sharing time. I thank Senator Norris for all the hard work he has put into this Bill. I thank the Leader for ensuring this debate took place this evening and for her judicious use of “horsetrading”— that is probably not the right word — to ensure the debate would proceed. I also thank the Minister for his extremely thoughtful and useful speech.
Mr. Norris: Hear, hear.
Dr. Henry: It carefully teased out much of what is in the Bill. While we support Senator Norris’s proposition some of us have concerns such as those raised by Senator Quinn. Section 6 is very difficult. It provides that heterosexual relationships will be the same as marriage. They will have the same rights but not the duties as was pointed out. I, probably more than any one in the House, have had experience of working with people who simply will not get married, even though I thought it was the best thing for them to do. For 35 years I worked in the Rotunda Hospital and even though it was not my job or my duty to have anything to do with advising people on their private life I could see that at times people were getting into fairly serious legal difficulties as time went on. I worked there over a period when the rate of birth of non-marital children went from 3% to 30%. This did not mean that their parents were not in stable relationships. The vast majority, 90%, were in stable relationships. I do not know if they are more likely to get involved in a civil partnership than in marriage from the various reasons they gave me as to why they were not getting married. They never got around to it. They were saving for the wedding. They were saving for the house. They were saving until the third child was born because they did not want the first two to be discriminated against because they would be married when the third was born. I have heard the most amazing explanations, all very worthy, but I am not convinced that these people would be more likely to become involved in a civil partnership. It is a private decision that people make. Sometimes I wonder if it is due to the fact that we delayed introducing divorce for so long that it became perfectly obvious that it was acceptable to have non-marital relationships and there would be no problems. Now we have a situation where all of us who could have done something about bringing in divorce much earlier face this confusion. Those who are most affected are same sex couples. I salute my friends Dr. Katherine Zappone and Dr. Ann Louise Gilligan who are in the Visitors Gallery on their courage in bringing forward their case——
Mr. Norris: Hear, hear.
Dr. Henry: ——which is the subject of the first part of the Government amendment. I do not like the Legislature being totally influenced by the courts. I like us to have a fair amount of influence on it and was looking forward to Committee Stage. We need to be careful that in protecting marriage we are not letting the family down. There are an enormous number of different family types in Ireland. I think particularly of the position of children because same sex couples who may, as others have said, have had children in a previous heterosexual relationship are in a terrible position given that they cannot adopt or have guardianship or custody of that child. This is a really difficult situation because if something happens to the biological parent what is the position regarding that child? Perhaps the Minister would address the issue of such couples who have had children by a surrogate mother because that is far more widespread than one would think.
Mr. M. McDowell: I know.
Dr. Henry: Some public cases have been in the press but there are others and I have raised this matter here previously. We will have a messy case in the courts one day and regret it very much. For the stability of society, the rights of children and the happiness of those in same sex relationships I hope we can make progress on this issue as rapidly and comfortably as we can. The stability of society, including parental leave, is what we discussed all afternoon and it is to all our benefit to encourage that. I again congratulate Senator Norris on his courage in introducing the Bill.
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