17 December 2003
Dr. Henry: I welcome the Minister of State to the House. I very much welcome the appointment of Ms Emily Logan, who is an inspired choice. Those who have worked with her and know her say she will be absolutely splendid. She will certainly have her hands full as we live in a very wicked world considering what is happening to children.
Senator Feighan mentioned the gruesome case in England in which two ten year old girls were murdered by a man of 28. It is shocking to find that there were streams of accusations of child abuse against him. Apparently it was well known that at the age of 23 he had fathered a child with a 15 year old. This went on and on.
Ms O'Rourke: He went through school after school.
Dr. Henry: We seem to be little better at screening those involved in child care now than was the case when the incidents, which are being revealed at the Laffoy commission, happened. We say we did not realise what happened then. However, we were putting children into the care of institutions then and we know they were abused. Unfortunately, the same thing appears to be happening now. I am sympathetic to health boards that are having trouble recruiting staff to work with children, especially difficult children. However, we must make a better attempt than what is happening now. This case in England happened in an open school where the children were of an age at which one would think it was safe to leave them out and about. They were not very small children who would not have complained about what was happening to them.
Senator Glynn alluded to the case that Senator Ryan and Senator Hanafin raised on the Order of Business this morning regarding the very late abortion for a child in the care of a health board. I asked how she had been so poorly supervised as a 13 year old that she became pregnant, whether charges were being pressed and attempts made to discover who had impregnated her and where it had happened. While we do not have the details of this case, in the X case the parents informed the Attorney General they were going to England as they wanted to ensure DNA samples could be taken so that the person they suspected, the child had said and was since proved to have caused the pregnancy of that child, also aged 13, could be prosecuted. The health board must attempt to do the same in this sort of case.
It is 10,000 times worse that it should happen to a child in the care of the health board. As that child was taken into care, all of us have a collective responsibility for her. Did it happen here? Did it happen in England? What on earth was going on? I have raised this matter here before. I see this as a serious issue and I do not believe this was an isolated case.
I am also very troubled by the cases of unaccompanied minors. While some of them may arrive here pregnant, others may not. There is a considerable lack of supervision of these children who are in the care of the State as they are children. The Refugee Council report describes children as being unsupervised from 5 p.m. until 9 a.m. the following morning and teenagers minding teenagers, all of which is utterly unsuitable. I know there are huge difficulties, but we must do something to rectify this situation.
Despite the fact that it might be as a result of negligence and carelessness on our behalf, immigrant children appear to be excluded under section 11 of the Ombudsman for Children Act, which states that the Ombudsman for Children cannot investigate any action taken concerning the law relating to asylum, immigration, naturalisation or citizenship. This leaves these children in an incredibly vulnerable position of not even having the protection of the Ombudsman for Children. Also listed in the exclusions are cases where civil legal proceedings are taken in any court. Does the same apply if criminal legal proceedings are taking place, which is surely what should happen in a case such as the one in Senator Glynn's health board area? These are most depressing findings on a day when we all should be rejoicing about what has been achieved in appointing the Ombudsman for Children.
When we introduced the Child Care Act, I was very critical of the fact that inspections of institutions for young offenders were to take place every six months, whereas the inspection of institutions for non-offenders was to occur periodically. The then Minister said this was because there were not enough inspectors to go around. However, the family of a child offender would be more inclined to be in contact with and keep an eye on their child than the family of a child who may be in for neglect. There may be very little protection for such children. We have seen justified criticism about many institutions, which we have had to close. This should be reconsidered so that there can be more inspection of these facilities.
Children should not be in the same institutions as adults. This is entirely unsuitable regardless of whether they are Irish nationals or immigrant children. It is impossible to keep an eye on them especially when people claim family relationships that may not exist. We must introduce better supervision in this area.
As the Minister of State knows, all family law cases are held in camera. A young barrister was appointed a few years ago to report on these cases. People do not realise how serious many of these cases are and how much they affect children even in fairly straightforward cases such as divorce and separation in which some judges do the very best they can to secure the rights of the child. For example, in cases where those separating are in better off circumstances, some judges have said that the children should be left in the home and the parents should find a flat or other accommodation. It is unworthy that the children should be the ones most disrupted. We have no idea what goes on in these cases. The Attorney General at the time, who is now the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, said that "in camera" meant "in camera". The barrister who was appointed could not sit in on these cases. As legislators, we need much more information about what is going on. The public also need such information. I ask that this area be examined as rapidly as possible because children are frequently badly done down.
4 o'clock
I would also like to speak about children who are mentally ill. The facilities in this country for such children are woeful. The circumstances of children in voluntary hospitals can be investigated, but what about children in psychiatric hospitals? It is entirely unsuitable that they can be held in adult psychiatric hospitals, but that is what is happening. There are six places in the west and four places in Dublin. I am often contacted by psychiatrists who say they cannot get places for children who will do damage to their families. Those who are psychiatrically ill and attend hospitals on a day care basis do not receive any schooling. There is plenty for the new ombudsman to do. Those with attention deficit disorder, Asperger's syndrome and similar problems receive very little help. What proportion of the children to whom I have referred drop out of school at secondary level and attract the attention of the criminal justice system very shortly afterwards?
I am glad that Senator Glynn mentioned the issue of bullying. I was horrified to hear about a ten year old in his local area who was bullied. My Trinity College colleague, Professor Mona O'Moore, has been raising this issue for 20 years. A case involving bullying in junior infants is before the courts at present. Surely we can get a little more done in that regard. The Cathaoirleach has been very patient with me so I will conclude by reiterating that so much remains to be done. It would be good if the ombudsman could examine the recommendations of the All-Party Committee on the Constitution. The committee suggested about eight years ago, when it was chaired by Deputy Jim O'Keeffe, that the constitutional provisions in this regard could be changed. I apologise to the Minister of State for giving him something else to do.
Ms O'Rourke: The Minister of State has enough to do.
Mr. B. Lenihan: I will be happy to have something else to do.
Dr. Henry: The position of children under the Constitution is not as good as their position under the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child. I wish the new ombudsman, Ms Emily Logan, well in her work but I am afraid she will have a great deal to do even before she begins to assess individual cases.
Dr. Henry: I shall try to bring some peace and calm to the debate. Competition is very important and I read the report with great interest. However, one area which was not addressed in any great depth was that of retaining trained personnel within the economy. We have made major efforts to promote businesses involved in the pharmaceutical, chemical and information technology areas, which rely heavily on trained personnel. I fully supported the Minister for Finance's moves on individualisation in respect of tax having, as I stated at the time, suffered being described by a member of the Revenue Commissioners as being the same as a wholly owned subsidiary of my husband when I complained about the amount of tax I was paying. It is a pity the Minister has not made further efforts in this area. We must try to ensure that we retain within the economy the people we are now training at second and third level in science and technology.
There have been many reports on equity in third level education and efforts are made to ensure that employment is fair. The Houses recently passed the Maternity Protection (Amendment) Bill but it will have little effect if child care facilities are not available in the various industries or businesses we are discussing. I suggest that the Minister might try to remove from the economy what is described as the "churn" factor. This is where people, generally women, are trained up to a certain level and employed in industry or business. These individuals are then lost because they leave employment, perhaps for domestic reasons, for a short period and there are no retraining methods to facilitate their return.
We do not have many life-long learning schemes. Some years ago I was privileged to be given an honorary degree by the University of Ulster. At the conferring ceremony, I was amazed to discover that many of those receiving undergraduate degrees were nearly the same age as me.
Mr. Dardis: The Senator is very young.
Dr. Henry: I thank Senator Dardis. It was good to see the level of retraining in which those on the opposite side of the Border were engaged at the time.
I hope that the Government can take action in respect of the schemes to which I refer, particularly in the areas of technology and science and engineering. The Department of Trade and Industry in the United Kingdom recently became so concerned about the matter that it compiled a report, so there is no need for us to commission one. One of the women involved in its compilation, Dr. Gill Stephens, famed for discovering viagra and worldwide research director of Pfizer, a company of importance to this country, spoke in Ireland last week about the importance to our economy of trying to retain people we have trained. That is a matter which is worthy of consideration.
The Government should try to provide more support in these areas. The spirit is willing, but the flesh has been rather weak. Further efforts have not been made in respect of tax breaks for child care or the care of the elderly. I hope the Minister for Finance can do something in this regard in the next budget. The loss of trained workers in any part of the economy is a serious problem.
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