Intoxicating Liquor Bill 2003: Committee and Remaining Stages
Dr. Henry: I support Senator O'Toole's amendment. Some people just go asleep and if someone is out of his or her mind with drink and asleep in the corner of the pub, surely he or she is a drunken person too.
Dr. Henry: I look forward to hearing the Minister's response to Senator Terry's question as to whether the licensee would be incriminating himself by calling the police. Senator Minihan's concerns are covered by section 6 which gives the licensee the power to request a person to leave the premises.
Dr. Henry: I move amendment No. 9:
In page 8, between lines 15 and 16, to insert the following new subsection:
"(4) The Court may, if it sees fit, refer a person convicted under subsection (3) for alcohol abuse assessment and with his or her agreement, treatment if required.".
People who get themselves into this sort of state, particularly those who are obliged to go before the courts for repeat offences, have possibly got a serious problem with alcohol. This is not really being addressed in the Bill. However, I realise that the Minister is trying to do something on a very practical level with this legislation.
Within accident and emergency units, we are now trying to ensure that more is done for people brought in out of their minds with alcohol than just trying to get them to sober up and treating whatever injuries they have suffered. An attempt is being made to get them to see alcohol abuse nurses, who try to humour and humiliate people into agreeing that they must have some sort of treatment and simply cannot go on as they are at present. It is a trifle depressing to think that people who have got into such a state as to end up before the courts - not once, but twice - will not be offered solution to their problems other than paying a fine.
What I am attempting is a somewhat similar to what the Minister for Transport, Deputy Brennan, has attempted with penalty points. It is not just a question of fines, which, unfortunately, people are inclined to pay - even if they are hefty - because this may only happen to the person once every couple of years. If the amendment is accepted, people would, instead, be made to take some cognisance of their actions. We can, in other legislation, ask for psychological reports, etc., on such people, but I do not know if that is useful in this context. I do not know if the Minister contacted any addiction centres, such as that in Trinity or the Rutland Centre, regarding the best place in which and the best way to deal with people who repeatedly offend in such a way.
This is an awful problem because nobody wants these people rolling around the streets. I have spoken previously about my horror at the level of drink being taken by young women who do not seem to understand at all what it is doing to them physically. I am not a proud person, so if the Minister can bring forward a better wording at Report Stage, that would be absolutely fine. I hope that this legislation will be useful, but I would not like to dismiss such serious situations as people being out of their minds once, twice or three times and then paying fines without some attempt being made to try, as a society, to make them address their behaviour.
Dr. Henry: I thank the Minister for his reply. I see his point, but I wonder if what he is suggesting could not be incorporated into this and other Bills, if required. This legislation has received much public attention and I would not like the idea to go out that if people get drunk, they will just get a fine of €300 on the first occasion and €500 on the next. I would like there to be some sort of cognisance also of treatment.
The Minister mentioned the effect on people being told they would have to take the driving test again and the penalty points system certainly sharpened people up to a considerable degree in terms of the way they drive. I now keep an eye on the speedometer going through Donnybrook in case members of Garda are out with their equipment trying to catch me.
I would be very grateful if the Minister looked at this matter between now and Report Stage, mainly because the legislation has already received a great deal of public attention and will attract more. It is just the sort of people at whom the Minister is trying to aim the legislation who will look at this. I thank the Minister for his reply and will withdraw the amendment. I hope he will have thought of something better by the time the Bill reaches Report Stage.
6 o'clock
Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
Dr. Henry: I also support the Minister. Like Senator Terry, I am dismayed by seeing small children in bars. It is a terrible sight and children do not much like it either. This section might appeal to adults because it might be nice to be in a pub without having a crowd of small children on top of one after 9 p.m. Perhaps it will encourage me to go into pubs more often than I have in the recent past.
The Minister is right about 15, 16 and 17 year olds because when we discussed the sexual assault unit in the Rotunda, and accident and emergency departments in hospitals, one of the most difficult groups to deal with was children aged between 15 and 17 years. Dr. Mary Holohan, the consultant in charge of the sexual assault unit in the Rotunda, said the most difficult night to get anyone to staff the department - she always has to do it herself - was the night the junior certificate results came out, not the leaving certificate. This is a serious issue.
Like the Minister, I rely on the ingenuity of the publican on Bere Island. I bet he would have a room somewhere in which to put children in order that he would not lose his clientele.
Dr. Henry: I am glad that the Minister introduced this section. The drinks usually supplied in these offers are disgusting because they put a lot of ice in them, so they are not giving twice the measure at all. The advertising of such offers is aimed at students and I have seen evidence of this. I pointed out to the House on a previous occasion that some are directly aimed at young women because advertisements stating "Three vodkas for €10" - which, I understand, is a bargain - were placed on the doors of the women's lavatories in Trinity College. I am glad that the Minister has included this section because it is important. Such offers have become an awful curse. One sees advertisements which state "We are changing venue, come and get three drinks for a certain price".
Dr. Henry: I commend the Minister on subsection (1)(a) which prohibits promotions on a licensee's premises. I have seen extraordinary promotions, for example, for rum with bonny girls leaping around the place, which must have cost a fortune. Therefore, they must be well worth doing. I have a question about the subsection because at this hour of the night I can ask Senator Quinn for double Superclub points for having my wits about me. I realise the Minister has to bring forward regulations regarding this matter. Senator Quinn has pointed out to me and the Minister that there would be a great cost and a great deal of labour involved in affixing particulars to all containers of intoxicating liquor sold for consumption off licensed premises. In order that I can report back, has the Minister had any further thoughts on the matter?
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