24 March 2004
Dr. Henry: Senator Mooney is right that unless one has had the experience of emigration, and the loneliness of being away from home, it is difficult to empathise with those whom we are discussing. For approximately 17 years, Senator Mooney presented his RTE radio programme "Both Sides Now". It must have been a draining experience at times because some of the messages broadcast from London, Coventry, Manchester and elsewhere were from people at their lowest ebb. The Senator used the word "urgent", which is very important in the context of this debate. Many of these emigrants are in their 60s and 70s, so we will not be in a position to act on their behalf if we delay much longer, no matter what good work the Government is doing.
To date, Senators have spoken about those who left this country to get work because they could not find employment here. However, there were others, for example, women who became pregnant outside marriage, who were forced out for sociological reasons. Tens of thousands of such women had to leave this country to have their children in England. The perceived "disgrace" of having a child outside marriage was terrible and we have never investigated our levels of infanticide in those days, apart from occasional academic theses. It really was a deplorable situation. Some of those women are still resident in England so we could usefully make contact with them.
Some Senators will be aware that during the Second World War the idea of obliging single women to obtain an exit visa to leave the country was being considered. However, it was decided to drop the proposal when it was realised what effect it might have on the rate of children being born outside marriage. We used England as an appalling escape route for people who were at their most vulnerable. Some of them are still living in England and I have met a number. A friend of mine worked in a centre for Irish women in Islington, which is not the poorest London borough.
Mr. Mooney: Not any more.
Dr. Henry: She was a psychologist. She told me the centre had been set up because Irish women who were in serious trouble with psychiatric illness and alcoholism did not want to let the side down by saying why they had to leave Ireland. That is dreadful. They felt that when they went to the regular social services, they could not tell the truth about their previous predicament. I salute the women who established that centre. Approximately nine or ten women per day came in to tell of their experiences. They did not want to let the side down by speaking about being treated for psychiatric illness or having been forced out of Ireland. I do not know what excuses they used to give about their backgrounds but it is very sad to hear of such cases.
I have also met the children of those women. Senator Mooney is right to talk about the great work of DION, albeit with limited funds. I went with someone from DION to attend a meeting of children who had been born to these Irish women. Very little thought was paid to them, apart from the fact that they should have a Catholic upbringing. One man told me he had been put into a house with an elderly Polish couple, which was all that mattered apparently. Those children went through very rough times so we should make more effort to contact them.
Another man told me that his mother had been a nurse. She had given him up for adoption in England because otherwise she would not have been able to get employment as a nurse. She managed to catch up with him again when he was about 40 years of age. He told me that his father was a doctor, gave me his name and asked me if I knew him, which I did. Then he asked me if he looked like his father. I asked the man whether he had ever thought of trying to find his father. He replied: "You know, it is so hard the way my mother was treated. Every now and then I think I will go over to Ireland to seek him out, but at other times the pain is so bad that I can't. It is the sort of thing you take up and put down. You think you can go and deal with it, but then you decide you can't." We could try to help such groups of people.
There is all too much in Dancing at Lunaghsa which is true to life. The fate of the two youngest sisters was the fate of many Irish women who went over to very poor employment in England and lost contact totally with their families. While emigration was hard for men, it was easier for them to socialise; it was desperately hard for women to do so.
In sociological surveys of psychiatric illness and alcoholism in England, no one is higher up the league than the Irish. Studies have been done to see if it is due to our Celtic genes, but it is not because the Scots and the Welsh are further down. The Indians and the Pakistanis are further down still. Sometimes one finds that the West Indians have similar psychiatric problems, but not with alcohol. The most vulnerable of these Irish people who had to leave for England paid a dreadful price through illness.
I remember how we dealt with people who got into trouble before the courts. I was in court in Cork and heard a judge say, "It is the Innisfallen tonight, or jail". The youth's mother stood up in the court and replied, "I've got him the ticket already". We had the most extraordinary methods of dealing with people who were extremely vulnerable from a sociological point of view.
I strongly support the motion because we do not have much time left. Although we have money now and DION is doing great work, we must do as much as we can immediately because the people affected are getting older and they will not be there forever. I am pleased with all the Government has been doing but there is an urgent need to accept the motion, rather than the amendment.
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