5 February 2003
Dr. Henry: I welcome the Minister. The words of Dr. William Harris of Science Foundation Ireland have been quoted so frequently that it is appropriate that he is present in the Visitors Gallery with some of his colleagues in order that he can hear-----
An Cathaoirleach: It is not proper to refer to people in the Visitors Gallery.
Dr. Henry: This Bill is most welcome. The initiative the Minister took some years ago regarding science and technology and the need to maintain and promote research and development has been magnificent. She is to be congratulated warmly on having managed to ring-fence the funding for research, which is deemed to be of great importance economically and industrially, and for the manner in which she has dealt with the matter in her Department. The efforts made during the last round of what are described as "adjustments" must have been ferocious because in every other area of research the most appalling things have happened.
I was interested to hear Senator Coghlan say that Dr. Harris claims the universities are well prepared. They were well prepared, but that is no longer the case since the programme for research in third level institutions has been decimated. The Minister must look at what is happening in some of the other departments if she wants to ensure that Science Foundation Ireland is a success. We have recruited magnificent people to the foundation. The Minister and I attended the opening, which she performed, of Trinity's nanoscience technology unit where she saw the international calibre of its recruits. Science Foundation Ireland will be like a beached whale if people are not available to feed into it. The universities were encouraged to involve academic staff in research, but as soon as they did so huge amounts of capital funding for third level institutions was cut back. There have been serious cutbacks in the research programmes of virtually every department.
I am delighted that Senator O'Rourke is here, though I am sure she will not remember one of the first debates in which I was involved in this House. She was at the Department of Enterprise and Employment when Digital collapsed in Galway. I told her in this House that she should try to hold on to the research and development element of the operation. Such units take a long time to build up and one is bound to find other firms which recognise their value. In the case of Digital, Boston Scientific had taken over the research and development unit after about six weeks. I am sure the Leader remembers that important event.
I am dismayed to see what is happening in other areas in which excellence should be aimed at as it is from these areas that people should be moving to Science Foundation Ireland. We are coasting along on the idea that we have done well in the past, which we feel means a huge effort does not have to be put in again. In science and research you must realise every day that you are in direct competition with people in different parts of the world. We cannot have an on-off scenario whereby the funding is stopped and recommenced after three years.
I disagree completely with Senator Lydon's comments on the Internet. We have fallen terribly far behind with regard to broadband. I am no expert, but I am constantly told we are at a serious disadvantage due to the fact that more investment in broadband was not made over the last five years. I could spend the afternoon listing areas in which there has been a reduction in funding. The higher education authorities have parked their research programmes, as have the research councils and the Department of Education and Science. Teagasc funding has been cut back, as has the Department of Agriculture and Food's food research measure. Nothing is an island unto itself and these programmes feed into each other. The funding for research and development at the Department of Communications, Marine and Natural Resources has been cut. The Health Research Bureau, which is very close to my heart, has seen its funding go down. On Second Stage of the Protection of the Environment Bill this morning, we all agreed that we needed to put effort into research, yet the EPA which produced a splendid report on drinking water in 2001 has had its funding cut.
It is fine to talk about the wonderful Science Foundation Ireland. The credentials of its scientists are amazing and the Minister is quite right to say that international firms will feed money and projects to it. However, we will encounter a serious personnel problem if people within our universities and other research institutions have to live with an on-off funding policy. Sometimes the amounts in question are not very great, but research is a soft target and some do not understand how difficult it is to recommence programmes which have been suspended.
I implore the Minister to take a tough line on this at Cabinet. She was right in saying that our sustained economic growth and prosperity will depend upon establishing a culture of scientific and technological innovation, a high level of research and development and a globally competitive knowledge-based economy. The Minister further stated that this repositioning is essential if we are to provide sustainable, high-quality, well-paid jobs in the future. I could not agree more. She said we must strengthen the scientific foundations on which we develop high productivity, high technology and market driven, knowledge-intensive investment, including start-ups in the industrial and services sectors. This is right, but it will not happen simply through Science Foundation Ireland. We must protect the other areas which are extremely important.
The Minister spoke about the fact that biotechnology will play a pivotal role in social and industrial development, as physics and chemistry did following the Second World War. However, physics and chemistry are very important in the education of those who enter the biotechnology field. The Minister said we must meet the challenge of making science and engineering careers attractive to students. Engineering has been seriously under-subscribed for many years, but lowering maths requirements will do no good. Maths must be got up to standard within schools, not by providing for a complementary year. We must find ways to encourage people to stay with physics and chemistry as undergraduates. There is a significant drop-off rate in the numbers taking those subjects when they come to make choices in scientific courses in the third or fourth years of study. At the opening of the nanoscience technology unit, I noted that the backgrounds of the scientists involved included primary degrees in physics or chemistry. These subjects were not just important after the Second World War, they are very important still.
Last year, Trinity ran a very innovative programme. We had lost a lot of chemistry students after senior freshman year, prior to the third year of study. Dr. Sylvia Draper came up with the idea of having a competition whereby students would be divided into groups which would create television promotions explaining to the public the basis of scientific ideas and the need for environmental conservation. I was kindly asked to be one of the judges of the competition and I saw that initiatives of this sort work. Last year was the first time that chemistry in junior sophister year was over-subscribed. We have to be imaginative in our efforts to get people to stay with these disciplines, even if such efforts seem small and simple. The lack of emphasis on basic science in the Minister's speech is worrying. Physics and chemistry are the basic disciplines to which we must attract people before we can promote them to advanced science such as biotechnology.
The Minister said that we must provide incentives that encourage graduate students, post-doctoral researchers and non-tenured researchers to remain active in research and engineering within Ireland while recruiting and retaining outstanding researchers from abroad. It is an important point. Last year a student obtained a first in physics, but to my dismay he went to South Korea to make computer games. He said it would be very interesting.
End of Seanad debates for tonight.
Ms Harney: He will be paid a large salary. I hope he will return home as the head of a large company.
Dr. Henry: It is terrific to embark on such a career after graduating, but I hope he will return to the country.
Ms Harney: At least he went to South Korea, not North Korea.
Dr. Henry: Apart from the nuclear industry, I do not believe there is much industry in North Korea.
We give serious consideration to giving encouragement teachers of mathematics, applied mathematics, physics and chemistry because, unfortunately, a considerable number of those who teach these subjects do not possess a primary degree in the relevant discipline. These are difficult subjects to teach at the best of times and, particularly in light of the requirements of the modern curriculum, it must be very difficult for those who hold primary degrees in other subjects, such as English or history, to do so. The teachers' unions do not agree with teachers of difficult subjects being paid more, which is one of the reasons it is difficult to retain them. Perhaps the Minister will discuss the position with the Minister for Education and Science.
If students are to pursue these disciplines, they must be well taught. We all remember from our schooldays that we enjoyed courses taught by teachers with an enthusiasm for and knowledge of the subject. However, it was uninspiring if teachers confined themselves to reading from manuals, etc.
I strongly support the Minister in her endeavours because this issue is of enormous importance to industry in this country and to our development on the world stage. We have managed to secure an important niche in these areas. It is why pharmaceutical industries locate here. While they are attracted by the tax breaks and incentives, they would not be here in the absence of a good workforce and we must ensure that it the members of that workforce remain here.
Universities made major efforts to try to get people involved in research, but they now consider that the rug has been pulled from under them. Organisation such as Teagasc, the Environmental Protection Agency and the Health Research Bureau have done excellent work. People had expectations, but the so-called spending adjustments have removed them. This is a major blow and it will not be easy to secure the return of the many good people who became involved. It is necessary to ensure that they are given some idea regarding their tenure, be it five or ten years.
The idea that research does not take long must be challenged. A period of 20 years for a programme can be very short. Fortunately, Science Foundation Ireland realises that some projects will take a long time to complete and it is addressing this aspect.
I applaud the Minister for what she has achieved. However, I implore her to urge the Government to do something or she will otherwise have secured a loan for Science Foundation Ireland which will be unable to attract the ideas and people it needs.
Many years ago I read an article in the Lancet about the value of coffee breaks. The article in question referred to people from different disciplines in hospitals meeting to complain about what they were trying and failing to do and indicated that the cross-fertilisation of ideas at such gatherings frequently brought about solutions. We have come much further since then in that we now realise the importance of teamwork, ideas from other disciplines and national and international conferences. I would hate to see a regression in this area and I rely on the Minister to tell the Government that the spending adjustments must be re-visited in order to ensure that something is done to restore some of the research projects that have been cancelled.
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