9th October, 2002
Dr. Henry: I welcome the Minister to the House. He is as committed to his task as he was in his previous Department. He is welcome to set out the great achievements of the previous Government in education, but it would have been sad if, during what the Taoiseach described as one of the golden ages of Ireland, there had not been increased investment in education at a time of unprecedented prosperity. It has been pointed out by Ministers and others that our great prosperity was due to our efforts to educate many, particularly at third level.
I attended third level when less than 10% of those who completed second level managed to continue their education whereas nowadays almost 50% of students who complete second level take up a third level place. There has been a dramatic increase in the uptake of third level places. Sometimes we are apt to forget that primary and secondary education is extraordinarily important also because one cannot reach third level without completing these levels. I am glad the Minister concentrated on both.
There has been a great deal of upset within universities, particularly among students, about the possibility of reintroducing third level fees. Perhaps the Minister was thinking out loud when he raised this. When fees were abolished by the then Minister for Education, Niamh Breathnach, universities were less than enthusiastic because they could see that they would not be in a position to increase fees as they would be beholden to the Government. This is what transpired and there is a considerable shortfall in many disciplines because the fees support provided by the Government for third level institutions has remained static. This has resulted in an increase in the number of students at lectures and a reduction in the number of staff employed while certain posts have been frozen until funding can be provided to fill them.
It is not just the rich who will have to pay if third level fees are reintroduced. Previously, someone who was not rich but certainly not poor with three children in third level education at the same time found it very difficult. To keep up with international standards many students have to pursue postgraduate study. These studies are not just of advantage to the students involved, they are also of advantage to all of us because we must produce the types of people we need to work in our industries. Education is not just of benefit to oneself, it is also of great benefit to all of us.
The Minister mentioned he has made a particular effort to ensure computing and information technology skills are well developed in second level schools. That is important, but it is also important that the problems in science and higher mathematics are addressed. There has been a fall-off in the intake into universities in both areas which are extraordinarily important for the types of industry we have attracted to the country. The pharmaceutical, biotechnology and light engineering industries are becoming desperately short of skilled personnel. It will be very serious if we have to import people from other countries to address these shortages.
There has been a dreadful falling off in the number of students taking higher level chemistry, physics and mathematics. Fewer than 10% of students now take the first two subjects at leaving certificate level. Only a few years ago the figure was 20%. We must examine the reasons we are so short of teachers in these areas. Even recently there was not too much in the way of employment for mathematics and physics graduates, but now there is a huge range of opportunities for them. I met a physics graduate from Trinity College who told me he was going to South Korea to design computer games. It is a first class job and I was delighted for him, but if we lose enough people with such skills, we will be in a bad way. I heard someone suggest we should bring in science and mathematics teachers from eastern Europe and Russia where there is a surplus. Has the Department addressed this issue? It is vital that we do so because otherwise we could leave ourselves sub-skilled in these areas.
There was a huge drop in the number of students taking computer science at university this year. Trinity College was asked to expand its IT department five years ago, but this year its enrolment dropped from 3,000 to 1,500. That is a terrible drop in such a short space of time and staff will have to be laid off.
The Minister stressed the Department's role in tackling lack of access to education by those who are disadvantaged. That is only right. I particularly applaud the decision to set up the Committee on Educational Disadvantage under the Education Act, 1998, and I am delighted professor Áine Hyland is acting as chair. She is a close friend and will hear from me on the subject; there could not be a more committed person in the role.
The access programmes to universities have been a success. I am glad to see the role of access officer has been extended to the institutes of technology. It is a pity that they try to make themselves more like universities. The French polytechniques would not do this. They absolutely insist on the roles they have. It would be a great pity if we all ended up producing the same people. It is more worthwhile trying to produce the broad spectrum of people needed.
I know most about the Trinity College access programme. I attended the certification ceremony in July. It was extraordinary, there was a very large cross section of people, some quite young and some quite a bit older and with good qualifications such as apprenticeships. Four of them had gained places in the university starting in October. I was walking out with a woman, her husband and two teenage children and pointed the way out through the Nassau Street gate. She told me that she wanted to walk around with her family for a while in order that she could show them where she would be studying. It was lovely to see someone so proud of the achievement. I have also met people who came from places like Dunshaughlin community school, where one person out of a year of several hundred went on to university. This area must be addressed and I am delighted to see the Minister doing so.
I have one quibble. The Minister said there have been no cutbacks in courses. A course was established in clinical psychology in Trinity College for 12 postgraduate clinical psychologists. There are 50 vacant posts in the health boards which are trying to recruit internationally to fill these posts. There is a shortage of clinical psychologists to deal with people before the courts, especially children, and those in the prison system and other areas. The Northern Area Health Board of the Eastern Regional Health Authority was to fund this course for 12 people. The staff were put in place at considerable cost and of the 12 students selected, some had given up jobs. The course was cancelled at two weeks notice. That is extremely counterproductive.
Mr. N. Dempsey: The Senator might be in a better position to find out what happened in Trinity College.
Dr. Henry: We had to pay staff and the students lost out badly. We are looking for people with these qualifications and what do we do? We cancel the course.
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