About Identity post Death & Deep Sleep: its similarity to the arguments used against Anatman.

"Vedantin: There is no contradiction even here; for the point brought out through the analogy of the leech is that to the soul, remaining still surrounded by the subtle elements, occur such thoughts about the future body as are called up by the accumulated results of past actions; and this expectancy becomes lengthened out to the next body like a leech." pg 555 Br.S.Bh.

Just as a leech supported on a straw goes to the end of it, takes hold of another support and contracts itself, so does the self throw this body aside - make it senseless - take hold of another support, and contract itself. Br.IV.iv.3 pg.709.

The Linga Sarira gets the thought of how it will through a future body attain its desires. Gambhirananda's Note:Death Pangs make one forget the present body etc. Past activities then create in the soul a dream-like expectancy of the future body - or a body made of thought. The soul mentally attaches itself to that body.

In a further commentary on the various versions of transmigration Shankaracarya distinguishes the Samkhya from the Buddhist. In the former the all-pervasive senses and soul get a new body there is, as it were, a punctuated continuity. For the latter there being no continuity whatever in accordance with the Annica theory only the soul is reborn and the senses as well as the body naturally are born afresh. The Vaisesika and the Jaina view are also commented on.

All this goes to show that there is variety among the Easterners on the post mortem and new life state. Clearly there is coherence with their metaphysical tenets - corollaries of their theorems. In particular the Vedic view of the cause and the effect being non-different is consistently upheld. There is the unbroken chain of being. In Buddhism only the soul is reborn and the senses are born afresh just as much as the body.

It is clear that the inner workings of reincarnation are speculative and that this speculation is coherent with the main body of doctrine. Residual Karmas: "Therefore by residual karmas are meant those other results of actions which are calculated to produce effects in this world and which still stand over after experiencing the results that were to fructify there (in heaven); with those former the souls descend."

He uses the term Maya in relation to dreaming he speaks of it, the Dream state, as being a mere maya. There isn't room for a chariot in the body, you can't go 100 miles in a instant etc.

He also dismisses the theory that the state of Deep Dreamless Sleep is the highest state for the Vedantin. Confer with Tripura Rahasya and Brhidaranyaka Upanisad. The knowledge of the knower can never be lost. Enlightenment once got cannot be lost. Who returns from sleep? But the very same soul returns from sleep because of the reasons of action, remembrance, scriptural authority, and injunction. (pg.603)

The opponent to the Vedantin says that there is a merger in the state of deep sleep into primal undifferentiated consciousness and that thus there can be no separation back out again much as a drop of water thrown into a mass of water (pg.603). And when an attempt is made to take it up again from there, it is impossible to have that very same drop. Similarly when the sleeping soul has become one with the supreme Self and has obtained quiescence (i.e. freedom from everything), that very soul cannot wake up again. Hence the conclusion is that the waking being may be either the original soul, or he may be God, or some other individual soul. (604)

This can be related to the discussion on Annica and Annata in the earlier section II.ii.25 pg.412 on the permanence of the Self. And (a permanent soul has to be admitted) because of the fact of remembrance (i.e. memory). "To begin with the selfsame soul alone can awake, and none else, because an unfinished action is seen to be resumed. Thus one is seen to take up and finish a piece of work left incomplete on the previous day." Also from the fact of the integrity of memory - "for something seen by one cannot be remembered by another. And a recognition like, "I am that very person", in which one's own identity is recognised cannot be imagined to occur if some other soul should wake up."

And from the point of view of the performing of sacrifices etc. unless there be continuity of identity the injunctions are nonsensical. It could also be that a free soul wakes up in a bound body which makes liberation temporary.

Shankaracarya accepts that the drop of water is merged without distinction but in the case of man there is karma and ignorance to create individuality. Now he offers a piece of sheer mythology - Moreover it is a matter of experience that though milk and water, when mixed together, cannot be separated by any one of the human race, still they can be separated by ducks. (pg.605) .

The other thing that Sankara says is that transmigration has no beginning. When the problem of evil is dealt with in the B.S.B. The vedantin's opponent declares that God could not have created the world because in that case God would be open to the charge of extreme partiality and cruelty. [pg. 363] However God takes other factors into consideration, individual Karma and the dispensation of favour by Him "In whatever way men worship Me, in the same way do I fulfil their desires". Gita, IV.11 'Hold on a minute' says the opponent in response - ' in the beginning there can have been no karma to come to fruition, before creation that is'. There would have been no variety in mens' fates. Vedantin: " That is no defect, since the transmigratory state has no beginning. But if that state has no beginning, there is nothing contradictory for the fruits of work and the variety in creation to act as cause and effect of each other on the analogy of the seed and the sprout". Samsara has no beginning and is therefore endless.

There must be a discussion of Annata(Anatman).

19/11/01: Adjuntive: If the Ramana paradox holds then there are 2 Linga on the go or are there? It is significant that to secure identity and continuity there should be a single 'corporeal' chain. One Linga Sarira has been the bridgehead to the other incarnation. Given that the upadhis are not the same which is what allows this paradox to occur then we are not bound by conventional time direction so my next incarnation could be in the 16th.C. How flexible is this joint? The earlier janma is creating karma for the later but the Linga Sarira has not made the bridge between them and that as we know is what secures continuity. Therefore the moment of death is achronic and the Linga Sarira has gone back in time.

So if there is no expectancy that is like a reaching out to the next body; there already being a next body; and if we accept what Ramana is saying we must admit that the Linga Sarira conjunction is not invariable.