SOUNDBITES

BBC Radio London, Lisa I'Anson half hour interview

In a long interview with a veggie presenter, she won't ask questions, she'll talk about her own experiences then pause, leaving you a chance to talk.

First they ask how you became a veggie.
"Doing dissection in school, it was the first time I made the connection where meat came from…. And I thought, nah, it's not for me."

It's obvious:
"There's a lot more awareness now of where our food comes from. You see programmes with factory farming on TV all the time. And when people see where our food comes from, even after years and years of programmes and ads saying eat meat, it's good for you, within one hour their view completely changes."

Information helps:
"Leaflets from the Vegan Society really helped me."

Coming out:
"I didn't really come out as a veggie till University. People used to suss it and say 'You're not a veggie are you, not you.' But nowadays people say 'Ooh, I'm eating less meat.' People are really defensive. Now people know that it's not cranky, it's actually something really healthy."

Make a stand for core values:
"It's something really caring. And by being a veggie you're taking responsibility for your own health, and the suffering of the animals, and for making the world a better place. So it's something to be really proud of."

If she says that veggies can be patronising:
"I think it's best not to ram it down people's throats but to set a good example, invite people to dinner, when they ask lots of questions, which they always did whenever I started a new job, they say 'What about iron, what about protein, what about calcium?' and I'd given them all the information about how easy it is to get everything. And nowadays with the easy availability of vegetarian and vegan food it's actually a very very easy thing compared with 20 years ago."

So what do you eat:
"Nowadays it's very very easy. I think part of it is that there are so many ethnic communities, people who've come from abroad, and they've brought their food with them. And modern vegan and vegetarian cuisine is a massive fusion of the best few dishes from every cuisine in the world. So you get south-east Asian dishes, African, Chinese, Japanese, Mexican, basically anything that doesn't come from America or northern Europe is going to be great for veggies."

"There are more options than just cheese and eggs. There are more bean based dishes and tofu and soya products. I love those kind of things."

"There are over 120 vegetarian restaurants in London, 30 of them inside the central line. But 70% of the trade in a vegetarian restaurant such as Country Life at lunchtime is meat-eaters, because it's really great food, an all-you-can-eat buffet for under £6, very healthy, fantastic food, you wouldn't even know it was veggie unless you read the signs. Veggie food tends to be a lot cheaper because meat's expensive. You can have a really cheap night out and have more money for the pub or the cinema later."

Meat substitutes, why not just eat the real thing:
"Meat substitutes yes or no. Well you might say, should we have real gladiators or should we watch it on TV. My choice is not to kill for food. I don't believe in killing to eat, there's no need for it, therefore I think meat substitutes are a great idea. And this is why Linda McCartney started her meat substitutes. So vegetarianism is no longer about self-denial, it's about having lots of great foods, so you can get a fake sausage or a fake steak. And if you go into any health food store, in the chiller section there are all kinds of fake meats, there are vegan cheeses, instead of egg you can get an egg substitute for making cakes, you don't have to use any animal products at all. And the meat substitutes are great when you're a reluctant veggie or you're a veggie in a group of meat eaters. You can have something that looks and tastes as good as the real thing but without all the side-effects."

When did you become a vegan? It's not so hard these days being a vegetarian, to not eat meat, but to cut everything out:
"Well that's what I thought for the 15 years I was a vegetarian. And then about 1989 …. A couple of vegans said 'Come on, how can you campaign for animals when you're still eating the products of animals. I was drinking milk, eating cheese, eating eggs, which come from the same place. Milk and beef and veal are the same business. Eggs and chicken are the same business. It's the same animals."

But the animals don't need to die in order to get the eggs:
"Well that was what I thought as a vegetarian, and I was in for a bit of a shock. For example with milk, cows only make milk after they've had a calf. Of course the last calf you keep to replace the mother. But the three before that get sacrificed as veal or pet food so we can have the milk, which is why I switched to drinking soya milk, which is actually slightly more nutritious and much lower in fat and it's completely cruelty free. And the same with eggs, the chickens that produce eggs, you know how most of them are kept in factory farms. But even on a free range farm, all the male chicks are killed on day one."

Are they?:
"Well they're no use for anything except meat. You can either raise them for meat or you can kill them. And one lucky chicken might get to be kept. And even the egg chickens, when their yield drops, they get killed as well, and they should live for about seven years."

"So I made the switch to being vegan and it was easy for me to do that because where I was working the canteen introduced vegan and vegetarian dishes. They were very sceptical, and I found this in a lot of places where I used to work, they only had the token lasagne or the token curry. And when they brought in veggie dishes they were astonished that everyone was eating them. And I think that's a bit like saying I'm not Indian, but I can eat a curry. And I'm not Mexican but I can eat a tortilla. You don't have to be veggie to eat veggie food when it's done well. People like the Vegetarian Society and the Vegan Society are here to help caterers. You can get in touch with them or go to their websites like vegansociety.com, you can get a catering pack from them, and they will act as consultants to you. There are lots of ways to make food more vegetarian or more vegan and we'll tell you where to get the ingredients"

"Then you can attract first of all the four million veggies and the one in four families that has a veggie, and you can attract the people who just want something different."

How far do you take it, do you wear leather:
"No I don't wear leather. I've got shoes from Vegetarian Shoes shop in Brighton. They're vegetarian DM's, made from this stuff called lorica which is superior to leather. It breathes like leather and it doesn't become waterlogged. So veggie shoes, just like Goretex or Thinsulate or Kevlar for mountaineering or biker gear, they're tougher, they're lighter, and they don't get waterlogged. People say 'oh they're made from petrochemicals, they're polluting.' But actually the pollution caused by tanning leather is far greater than these will ever cause. So I don't eat the inside and I won't wear the outside, and that way I can keep myself clear of all the cruelty that goes with the meat business. And guilt free."

You're an activist. Why is it so important to you? Can't you just leave the carnivores alone, live and let live:
"I think it's about being caring and responsible and standing up for what you believe in, like Tony Banks saying there is no middle way, you either kill foxes or you don't, there's not 'Let's do it in a nice way so the poor little foxes don't suffer too much.' You just don't kill for fun in a civilised society. Through the Vegan Society and their Go Vegan guide for people who want to go vegan, we offer information to people or to parents of children who want to go veggie who are worried about nutrition and will they get enough of this and that."

So how does it compare healthwise to that of a meat eater:
"Vegetarians live on average about six years longer, they have far less heart disease, cancer, diabetes, rheumatoid arthritis. All the major western diseases have significant dietary components. And what the government is saying through the Health Education Council is eat less animal fat, eat more fruit, more vegetables, more grains, more beans. They might as well say eat more vegan food, it's a lot simpler."

There are times when your body craves certain foods, for example you might want a piece of steak when you're feeling run down:
"We crave fat and sugar, which make endorphins and serotonin as a reward and that gives us a buzz. There are lots of yummy veggie foods, they may not be quite as healthy, but they're cruelty free. So for example there are great vegan ice creams."

Do they taste good:
"They taste better. You just get some Swedish Glace or Tofutti, invite your friends round, don't tell them it's vegan. They'll never eat anything else."

The ultimate thing is it's all about the individual's right to determine what they eat, freedom of choice. You can give people the facts by all means, but surely then it's up to them:
"Absolutely. But the thing is most people haven't heard the facts. They're bombarded by advertising every day saying eat this, eat that, crisps, Coke, especially meat ads that suggest meat eaters are slightly sexier or more sophisticated. I think it's important to redress the balance just for an hour by giving people the other side so that they can make an informed decision."

"For example the four food groups that I see in every school I give a talk in, on the wall there's a chart that says you need two or three portion a day of meat, dairy products, grains, and fruit and vegetables. Now in America, after lobbying by doctors, they've abolished the four food groups. They do not tell school kids you need two or three portions a day of meat and two or three portions a day of dairy products, which actually are the worst things that you can put into your body. They may be high in protein, iron or calcium, but so are plenty of plant foods which are not loaded with saturated fat and cholesterol. And I think it's time that the government got rid of the four food groups like in America."

Free run:
"It's not just that there are millions of veggies and a quarter of a million vegans. Everyone is eating less meat these days."

Do you want everyone to be veggie:
"It's like votes for women or ending slavery, at the time it was proposed it didn't go down too well with the people who benefited from it. And it did take one or two or three generations for things to change. But with the rate at which vegetarianism is growing, from 100,000 at the end of the war we know from ration cards, doubling every 10 years to 4 million today, if you project that forward a couple of generations, that may well happen. Not necessarily because everyone wants to go vegetarian, but simple because without subsidy the pork, lamb and beef industries would already have collapsed. It doesn't matter how much you subsidise it, if people don't want to buy it, your business won't survive."

An "attack" is an opportunity.

I can't believe you just compared the abolition of slavery to eating meat:
"Well I think the animals would say it's a fair comparison. I think it's strange to eat a pig but not a dog, and then criticise people in another country where they might eat a dog, but in some parts of the world they wouldn't eat pigs. You've got to think about how consistent am I in this. It's something for everyone to make up their own mind about, but I'm here to help the people who've already decided they want more veggie food."

Where to eat with meat eaters:
"Indian restaurants can be good, Middle Eastern like Lebanese, can have over 50% veggie food. At health food and wholefood stores you can pick up veggie sandwiches, take-aways." And talk about the central shops in your town. "You don't have to be a veggie. Go and check out some of the great foods, the freezer section, the chiller cabinet. And talk to the people in the shop because they can be very helpful about the things that you might enjoy. And if you've got a veggie coming to dinner then they'll save your life. Unlike in a supermarket, they can tell you how to cook the stuff and they might even sell you a recipe book."

Finish with a recap of where to get info, especially the website.