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The Split

'This was of course before the split.We weren't long in occupation when the split came.The story of the split was this,you see. Prior to the Traty or maybe after the signing of the Treaty,Grifith sent down, and I suppose Collins was in it too, to all units of the I.R.A.,that they were to vote in a democratic way, for or against the Treaty. This was of course the Army part,the I.R.A. in our brigade anyway, in our battalion and in every company, they all voted against the Treaty.Now I'll give you the records of this period. They did say they were going to have Convention of the ordinary I.R.A. fellows in Dublin. But aparently they had their own intelligence party workink and they discovered that the majority of the I.R.A were against the Treaty. Then two or three days before the Convention came off they proclaimed the Convention was irregular.They said that anyone who would go there would be acting illegally, that they would be irregulars. That was how the I.R.A. got the title of irregulars. They did hold the Convention and Lynch was appointed Chief of Staff at that Convention. Tom Barry was training officer, I think; Liam Deasy was Assistant Chief of Staff, and you had Rory O'Connor, Liam Mellows,Frank Aiken and all that crowd. The Free State Army were being recruited all around the country. They were even sending agents in here because we had to arrest four officers. They were ex-I.R.A. fellows who had turned to the Free State.'All this time we were in occupation of the Barracks. The open warfare started some time in June, when Lynch came down from Dublin. They were fighting in Dublin and the 1st Southern Division were just standing-to. When he got out of Dublin however and he got down here, he pushed the Division into action. 'They captured posts up along the country, Urlingford and others, such as Kilmallock, I was in that myself. In fact I'd say the I.R.A. were in control for most of the south. About the only place, if my memory serves me right, that they had a garrison, the Free State was Thurles. Jerry Ryan was in charge of a party of Free State fellows there.And there was the famous Treaty of Limerick signed that time too, that people don't know about. Donncada Hannigan, who was a general with the Free State Army signed a Treaty with Lynch to say that the free State fellows in Limerick,anyway would never fire on their own. That was alright until he got reinforcements down the Shannon and he forgot about the Treaty. He let us have it. But that's another part of it.

'Of course we were still getting men in from the companies and we continued the training in the Barracks. From the Barracks then,you'd be told detail so many men for twelve o'clock to-night, say, and in all probability there'd be a few buses or lorries brought in to the barracks and that was a Column going off somewhere, like.

It was an I.R.A. barracks all the time and kept by the I.R.A. 'Now the night or two before the capture of Kilmallock from the Free State forces, we were told get ready, a bunch of us, all ranks, I think about thirty-five of us all ranks left the barracks and proceeded to Buttevant to be met there by Paddy o'Brien, the famous Paddy of Liscarroll.he was OC of the Buttevant barracks. And from there then the Cork fellows and the West Cork lads joined up with Liam Deasy in charge, and we travelled on from that to Lilmallock. That night ,just before six, he gave an offer to the Free State troors in occuupation there,and he'd give them a chance,if they wished, to surrender, without any shooting. This was Liam Deasy who gave that offer. They answered back by opening fire and of course the racket started. It went on from six o'clock that day, all through the night until they surrendered at six o'clock the following morning. And peculiar thing, I was detailed anyway to bring the prisoners-only the officers were taken prisoners, back to Fermoy. It was peculiar-I was to bring them back to the old barracks and the first felllow I met surrendering was one of the lads who escaped out of Bere island with me. He now was a commandant in the free State Army, Dick O'Connell; he was later a T.D. for Cumann na nGael. He was from Cahirconlish, Co.Limerick. We were great friends in the old racket. That's the way it ended up anyway. Dick had a bottle of whisky I remember in his hand when he was getting into the train in Kilmallock to come to Fermoy. 'I brought them on and handed them over at about two o'clock in the morning.He shook hands with me and he said he didn't think we were going to finish up this way. You know the usual thing. What could you say, like? He was on one side ,I was on the other. I wouldn't say there was a great deal of enmity between us. I'd say this much and I feel I'm honest in this, I can speak for the I.R.A. anyway. For the first six months most of the I.R.A. fellows had no heart for it. You see, you felt like you were having a go at fellows who were your former comrades, in most instances. I think the change of heart came when the four lads were taken out and executed yor the shooting of Sean Hales. I'd say that was the first cause of the real bitterness between the two crowds. They were taken out of Mountjoy Goal, Rory O'Conner, Dick Barrett, Liam Mellows and Joe McKelvie. After tat then like, fellows got bitter, more bitter than they actually were up to that.But as far as the I.R.A. was concerned they were weakened alot by fellows being captured. I'd say that if the executions had taken place six months earlier the Civil War wouldn't have ended as quick as it did. The I.R.A fellows would have fought harder.